Is CGI Anime posing a threat to 2D? Is there such a thing as CGI Anime?

Its failing cause a lot of it consists of ripping off other ideas and characters from already succesful titles.

And while it is and will always be a staple here in the west, only a few titles will make lots of money such as Naruto, and Bleach.

There are a heck of a lot of other problems with the Japanese animation community beyond a struggling economy and low wages… terrible copyright/ownership structure, labor laws for subcontracted employees, greedy advertising companies, atrocious royalty contracts, poor working conditions, lack of substantial union options, and so on and so forth.

Not that any of these are exclusive to the cartoon market in Japan…

Interesting article, confirming what I’ve heard from a friend who is currently working in Japan as a compositor for Gonzo, earning something like $6 Australian an hour (below minimum) and working till late in a cliquey and top-heavy studio.

If the outcome of the economic slump is a collapse of the current system and a shift towards traditional animation as Yamaguchi suggests, I say amen.

If this recession causes less anime, then it will all be worth it.

Anime isn’t as strong as it was in the US, too. Cartoon Network stopped running Naruto completely. (only Pokemon and one other continues to air).

Japanese animators make less than migrant workers who pick Tomatoes.

At this rate, the future of animation will be - out sourced - Nigerian made Flash animated farting blocks.

I think they were done in by their reliance on just three mouth poses. Closed, open and scream. Too much Japanese R&D money has gone into making trumpet playing robots and not enough into discovering new mouth poses.

Really? What an exciting news. Give me more like this, Amid…For example - Disney is dying, Dreamworks is dying. Of course they’ll dye, all that crap that they produce, who told t hem they’ll last forever… The crisis is good, I wish it last longer, so all the junk is gone - especially the TV series companies.

Anime is so ubiquitous and second-nature to Japan (in a way that animation never has been in the U.S.) that to say anime is dying is like saying Japanese live-action programming is dying. It’s not; it’ll always be around. But sheer output will vary with economic realities, just like programming of all kinds.

I was afraid it would be like this, but I didn’t want to believe it. Now I am filled with fear.

I’d rather say good riddance either way. The stuff they put out nowadays has been so narrow-minded and niche-oriented, it’s hard getting into it as a 30 year old when you know how terrible those shows really are (especially the ones with the underage girls always hooking up with older guys, how many of them do we need?), nothing like the anime I grew up with from the 80’s when it was still fresh.

This summaries the attitude on the feedback:

http://superdickery.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=71:slap-a-jap&catid=28:superdickery&Itemid=54

In the long-term, I wonder if this will improve the quality of anime if not the quantity. I’m only paying attention to a few series, right now. A lot of the other ones appear to blur together due to lack of originality, which, honestly, is the same problem for Western animation. Perhaps, if it wants to survive, anime producers will make bolder decisions with storylines, character design, etc, in order to catch the attention of waning audiences.

Or this could all very well backfire and mean that anime will pander even more to its audiences. That means bigger breasts, more panty shots, and less character development. Ick.

Anime? You mean JAPANIMATION?

Wild…

All I can think of is some animators mom telling them that there are starving people in other countries that would be happy to layout, animate, and clean up that whole episode for a daily bowl of rice…

I know things are ugly all over, but it still hurts to hear about it. I like anime now and then, but it sounds like they’re dealing with some of what the U.S. animation markets been battling for years… I say make things different…be it east or west.. I’m fed up with some of the same old formulas.

P

What is with half of these comments? Anime is VERY diverse. Doesn’t stuff like “big breasts and panty shots” apply to a lot of stupid sex comedies that movie companies keep churning out. If the US and Europe has the rights to produce animation, then the Japanese should be able to as well.

I guess I sort of want to agree with what Peter said, but I think animation is much more of a complicated process than live-action.

I was surprised when I was watching a documentary on the making of SPIRITED AWAY. There’s a point in the documentary where Miyazaki contemplates sending the animation to Korea, due to time constraints. He ends up deciding not to, but I was surprised he suggested it. I mean, it’s Miyazaki… Then again, Miyazaki has an interesting sense of humor. I dunno…

There are also studios and directors that are prolific enough that they might still be around, like Shinichirō Watanabe (MICHIKO TO HACHIN, COWBOY BEBOP), Madhouse (MIND GAME, KAIBA), and Studio Ghibli.

Yes, Johnny, there is CGI anime. Whenever I hear about it, it’s usually a tie-in to a video game like Resident Evil or something, but I’m sure there are other examples of it as well. I have trouble watching it because a lot of the time, it feels like I’m watching a really, really long video game cutscene.

Yes, it is good that people who produce a project you dislike are going to lose their jobs.

I’ve got a friend who works for Madhouse. A good number of his friends are losing their jobs because of this. You want to tell them, “Sorry you’re losing your job, but at least I don’t have to deal with so much of that anime crap.”

Frankly, I doubt anime is dying anymore than any other Japanese product is dying. Once this whole thing is over, I guarantee we’ll see anime again. Also, the bigger studios like Ghibli will most likely survive through this. Anime isn’t dead.

I very rarely watch Anime now unless it’s a Miyazaki movie or from the 60’s 70’s . Anime lost it’s novelty for me long ago.There were a few of them I liked such as Giant Robo and Van Helsing. Now its as if your watching the same episodes over and over again. it’s too bad though A lot of creative talent going to waste I wish I could read the perspective from some of the artists that animate in japan.I’m sure they are suffering churning out some of those horrible toons.

The very question is who still wants to be an animator in Japan?

When woriking in Tokyo were you have very expensive rents and paid not enough for a decent living without definite work hours and abusive overtime?

I’ve heard 2 years ago about a union some directors (Rintaro may be among them) were about to manage to help the local industry for better conditions.

About CGI, this studio is a breakthrough and stands out compared to all the high rendered pictures we’re used to:
http://www.kanaban.com/

Check USAVICH and their other clips. Delightful!

Like the spandex-only American comic book industry, the Anime industry is contracting because it’s catering exclusively to japanese fanboys and their fetishes and loosing mainstream appeal.

Otaku are killing Anime just as Fanboys killed american comics.

Anime is my favorite genre in animation by far.

Movies like Spirited Away and The Girl Who Leapt Through Time and series like Death Note and Evengelion are absolute masterpieces.

For me, Anime is the best thing that have ever happen to all animation.

Long life to the beautiful Anime.

Don’t worry, EatRune. I definitely recognize anime is diverse. I just meant it might be LESS diverse and involve more panty shots if it really is losing its audience.

I doubt anime is dying for good, anyway. Its popularity just goes in cycles.

“I think animation is much more of a complicated process than live-action.”

Sure, theoretically. But more important than how complicated is how costly. Animation in Japan is often a less expensive way to tell a given story (particularly those of a sci-fi or fantasy bent) than live action. This is of course the complete opposite of the reality in most other countries, but it is the core reason that anime has become so diverse. It’s not tied to any particular genres; it’s as universal a medium in Japan as live action is anywhere.

Nice attitudes here…

Oh, I forgot. Only American’s can up with with fresh and original animation– designs and a story lines that we’ve never ever seen before in feature after feature after feature. “Princess and the Frog” and “Monsters Vrs. Aliens”… there’s never been anything else like ‘em.

I agree with Angry Anim. I think a lot of people on Cartoon Brew are very biased towards their own country and the shit they produce. Obviously there are many amazing shows, short films, and movies that Japan has produced that I doubt more than 15% of the people commenting negatively have seen.

You have to know how to separate the good stuff from Japan, as animation is much more ubiquitous there. A lot of the good stuff costs way too much to import to here as well, and then no one would buy it anyways because like Jay Barnett said, the majority is only marketed to Otaku, and it’s killing it.

Also anime is not a genre, it’s just an easy saying to paint everything with big eyes and no nose coming out of Japan. That’s not to say good stuff doesn’t exist. So if this news ends up putting Studio 4C under, I will be very upset.

But does any of the negative supposed animation aficionados here even know who Studio 4C is?

It’s sad when the best animation Japan has to offer (outside of some theatrical productions) is nowadays found in animated pornography. Direct-to-video series like “Bible Black” might have really good animation (at times) and character design, but the writting is complete rubbish.

Kaiba, Paprika, Tekkon Kinkreet, Samurai Champloo, Kemonozume, Mind Game, Koji Yamamura’s latest, and Genius Party are all pretty recent and very worth watching, and full of great animation. There’s way more stuff that I think goes beyond Miyazaki, even though he gets the most hype, that most people won’t know about because not everyone can have an import deal with Disney.

Why would you say the best animation is in their pornography? Just because that’s almost the only crap that gets imported besides fighting sagas for kids and merchandise tie ins doesn’t mean that Japan only does one thing or can’t really animate. I’m sure they feel the same way as we do about them in general if all they are seeing is constant Dreamworks/Pixar 3d films, and the TV stinkers we have on Nickelodeon and Disney channel.

Obviously there’s always going to be a majority of bad animation in every country. The only problem with the US is we have the notion it’s only for kids, unlike other countries. For everyone here to have such a bad attitude towards the Japanese animation industry and wanting them all to fail and lose their jobs because they haven’t made the effort to torrent some of their great stuff is ignorant and mean spirited.

I’m sure other countries want our animation industry to fail because all we have are talking farting animals in their eyes. They obviously don’t only have panty shots and tentacle rape over there either.

Maybe reform would be nice with animators getting paid more, less outsourcing, and a want to produce better quality shows/movies with real depth, but all those three things you could say about Japan’s animation industry can be said here. Don’t we all let the Korean’s do the work for us at the end of the day either way? Ugh.

How can all the animation from an entire country completely die out?

Sean wrote:

Also anime is not a genre, it’s just an easy saying to paint everything with big eyes and no nose coming out of Japan. That’s not to say good stuff doesn’t exist.

Thank you!

People who think that anime is only about sex, cyberpunks and stuff is only limited to what was brought here to the US, or there are just perverts who want to see naked girls and sex, and technogeeks who like futuristic technology. Anime is much more diverse than that. There are shows for kids like DORAEMON and PERMAN. There are family shows like SAZAE-SAN. There are sports shows like STAR OF THE GIANTS and TOMORROW’S JOE. There are even superhero shows (that rival their numerous live-action TV counterparts) like 8-MAN, TIGER MASK, TRITON OF THE SEA, GATCHAMAN, DEVILMAN (1972), CASSHERN (1973), POLYMAR, several versions of CYBORG 009, and so much more. And before the “realistic” giant robots introduced by GUNDAM in 1979, there was IRONMAN # 28, MAZINGER Z, GETTER ROBO, UFO ROBO GRENDIZER, STEEL JEEG, COM-BATTLER V, VOLTES V, and so many others. Whatever did make it to the US is being ignored, because it’s not erotic or artsy-fartsy or hip or goth or emo or gamer enough, or just dismissed as kiddie shows.

Despite that, the majority of today’s anime isn’t even worth a hill of beans. I watch them and I’m not impressed. They have the same content (nonsense titles/names, video game-looking characters), same art style (which is getting worse, just as bad as some cruddy American superhero comic art), too much commercialism, too much cynicism, etc. Mostly, Gou Nagai’s newer shows are the only anime I give a damn about today, because he’s one of the few surviving giants I look up to.

Anime is dying, and the recession could be a major part of this. Personally, I think it’s for the better. Anime has collapsed several times before, and always managed to make a comeback. The question is, will it be a GOOD comeback? I think it’s gotten downhill since the early-to-mid-90s.

In short,

- It’s not because of the current ‘recession’, this problem has been around since the Tezuka Osamu set the standard in the 1960’s.

- CGI is not posing a threat to 2D animation in Japan. Although, there are quite a few 3D Anime that have been produced in the past few years.

- Also, if there are lots of copy-cat Anime, its because of Executives and Producers not wanting to take risks on new-untested-material (sounds kind of familiar doesn’t it!? have you actually watched what’s on tv in the west these days??)… and there are *many* original ideas, styles and artists available in Japan.

After working for the past 3 years in Tokyo, for studios Production I.G, TMS Entertainment, Studio Hibari, OLM, … I can say without a doubt, the problem is a combination of cultural expectations, underbidding, starry-eyed producers/executive, ottaku that won’t go home after 6:30pm and of course, greed!

John Paul Cassidy has made some pretty good points about anime’s current trend that I’ve found the one reason I can’t get into anything that has came out much in this decade. The anime of it’s “Golden Age” as often defined as a period lasting up to the beginning of the 90’s was filled with many interesting stories, characters and quality. What has happened since then has changed morphed into different trends based on demographics and viewership.

It should be of note that the term “anime” itself did not come to Japan until the late 70’s thanks to efforts of such ground-breaking shows like Space Battleship Yamato, Gundam and others that followed. Prior to that, cartoons produced domestically in Japan were thought of being childish or for children, as a previous term given for them was “Terebi Manga” (or TV comics), since most programs were adapated from comics (manga) made previous. As some have stated here, one component for the success for anime has been the obsessive fans who have backed it for so long (known as “otaku”), and it is perhaps those fans that are destroying it too with the amount of fans-only appeal that is being made to suit their whims and tastes. These shows often cater to a small group of people that are often broadcast at odd hours of the night (much like Adult Swim here), and often devoid of any quality besides providing what they need (hopefully ratings). I have never seen recent stuff like Lucky Star and hope to never as I know what I would be getting into with it. This is not to say that everything that’s coming out right now is terrible, but there’s always one or two things that show up that may appeal to me anyway, such as the film “The Girl Who Leapt Through Time”. That’s a far better film than what I had been seeing for quite some time, and hope to see more of in the future. Japan can make some interesting works like “Kaiba” from Madhouse, but hardly many people may enjoy it based on it’s unusual art/look alone, or shows based on a classic manga (such as those from Osamu Tezuka) that most would turn down as being ‘old’ from the designs alone. It’s a shame we can’t have the best things, but perhaps this fall of the anime industry may prove some use if it means more quality over quantity (which is always good).

Recent Anime [00's] I’d recommend based on either story or animation or both-
- most anything by Studio 4C. I really enjoyed the experimental aspects of Tweeny Witches. Media Blasters just did a great US release on dvd.
-Haibane Renmei, an overlooked fan favorite with a dark and surprising story about penance and forgiveness.
- still need to get it myself, but Dead Leave’s trailers are visually impressive.
- FLCL, Gainax’s most original output of recent, when not still cashing in on Evangelion [can't blame em]
- Any of Studio Ghibli’s recent fare. Sure purists will grumble about how it’s not Totoro, but Howl’s Moving Castle and Spirited Away are great films, and no animation slackers.
-Phoenix, also from MB, a recent adaption of Tezuka’s manga coproduced bya PBS station of all people. Solid stories, and better than usual TV animation help lift it above most other shows.

That said, a lot of the better shows are older, more due to less of a focus on cattering to fan cultures back then.

I’m kind of hoping the shift in markets means moving away from crappy late night TV animation, and back to OVA’s and theatrical releases with better quality control, with less output overall. I don’t doubt many studios’ll close [including some actually good ones], but it would just mean the more efficient ones’ld make it out. There’s still a market for it, if a smaller one then before. The bubble’s burst, and they have to tidy up, which isn’t much different from the ebb and flow of animation here.

I thought the title was “Anime is Dying” not “Open thread to post any and all random ignorant 1995-style ‘opinions’ and misconceptions about Japanese Animation”?

Also, what on earth does quality have to do with economic feasibility?

It’s like there’s a whole separate discussion going on here.

If you make the same movie over and over, people will tire of it. It makes no difference whether it is Anime or Disney imitator –both are cliches, and the constant repetition will turn the audiences off.

I’ve just reviewed about 200 student portfolios, about 25 % of which contained identically-drawn teen girl pirates in long coats with the same illogical mouth shapes and weak design. Precisely two portfolios used an anime style creatively and overcame its limitations with good solid drawing. This style can’t ‘die’ quickly enough for me.

Ah I forgot to mention Dead Leaves. It’s a great short, although lacking in any kind of feasible plot.

They really know how to make low frame count and cheap animation go a long way and show a ton of movement.

Peter there’s no ‘discussion’ at all, just the usual outpouring of people’s bizarre internal arguments almost totally removed from the reality of the Japanese animation industry and without ANY coherent understanding or knowledge of the people who make the animation, the styles, content, cultural context etc etc of the animation in question.

There are two things I’d like to discuss. First is the changes anime is going through, second is the comments.

Yes a lot of animation gets out-sourced. Watch the credits of just about anything animated on TV that wasn’t made with Flash and see how many Li and Chang names you can find. But there’s more to it than just that, in the past few years anime has changed. In addition to what was mentioned in the article consider this. First, it seems to me the market is being flooded. Look at the sheer number of new series each season. Remember that anime hasn’t been intended for a world market, it’s been intended for Japan. Do the Japanese really need 36 or more new animated shows 4 times a year? Second the number of episodes has changed. It used to be you could expect 26 or 52 episodes but now most series are only 13 episodes long. Third anime has shifted from being about people of all ages to almost exclusively being about high school students with a few teachers and parents. Any one of those things has the potential to hurt the market so how are all three combined going to effect it?

About the comments: Anime uses very little computer graphics, the closest you would find would be the Final Fantasy movies which seem to me more like feature length technical demos. Anime has always been about cutting corners where ever possible on animation so while CGI is used for mostly effects and vehicles, it seems to make heavy use of Adobe After Effects.

I’ve been wondering, what are the commenters are basing their judgments of anime on? This isn’t just a rhetorical question, I’d really like to know. If you’re watching kid shows like Pokemon, Naruto, Dragonball, Sailor Moon and so on then yes anime looks pretty weak. But if you were judging American animation on South Park and The Simpsons it would also look pretty weak.

If you think anime is lacking in animation watch FLCL or better yet Robot Carnival, a film every animator should see. If you think writing in anime is weak try watching a slice-of-life series like True Tears or Bamboo Blade or if you don’t mind science fiction, Oscar eligible Sky Cralwers or anything Ghost in the Shell. If you think anime is only about girls with gigantic eyes, watch Mobito, Last Exile, 12 Kingdoms or Blood+.

Robot Carnival is one of my picks as an ‘anime primer’ of sorts, despite the thing being 22 years old right now, it still displays all of what anime is and what it can do.

I agree with Tim Drage and MadRat, feels like some people here are the equivalent of foreigners who have watched cartoon network off-and-on and then run off and judge all American animation as being bad.

Noein, Kaiba, Haibane Renmei, Ghost in the Shell, Planetes, Samurai Champloo, Cowboy Bebop, FLCL, Lain, Serei no Moribito… one could go on and on with things that are amazingly good and many of which are way off the big-eyed-girl trope.

95% of anime is crap. That’s just Sturgeon’s Law and being Japanese doesn’t void it. All the same there is some stunningly good stuff there as well. I feel sad for animation fans who are missing out.

This year’s oscar winner, Kunio Katō’s ‘La Maison en Petits Cubes’ is anime.

if they want people to stop fansubbing they need to properly establish releases in western countries. the only way i can watch any anime is via fansub because the companys that sells anime here never gets good titles in, only whats popular (gundam series, naruto, dbz) as opposed to what i like (cardcaptor sakura, kanon)

I think its OK in america, funamation has an alright rlease rate, but here in australia its absolutley ridiculous, there is mabye two to four titles that madman stocks i would ever watch

The Philippines have always been one of the outsourcing countries of anime titles since the early 80s up until now. We are partially responsible for the in-betweens, background coloring and camera works of Dragonball Z and other titles.

Sadly, it’s more like a sweatshop industry when it comes to tweening, which is why outsourcing countries like ours have little recognition or credit in those animes we made.