Beware The Deep Archives and David Scheve

David Scheve
Photo of David Scheve found on his public Facebook profile

I’ve never had to write something like this before because I’ve never had a consumer experience quite as awful as this. I hope to prevent others from suffering what I had to go through with animation art retailer The Deep Archives and its owner David Scheve.

The story begins last August when I stumbled upon this piece on their website:

Ipana

It was listed in the NY animation category, but it is obviously a Tom Oreb model sheet for an Ipana Toothpaste commercial produced in Disney’s short-lived TV commercial unit. I’m familiar with the disreputable tactics of some animation art dealers who pass off copies as original art so I sent The Deep Archives an email asking point-blank:

It says original art so is it correct that it is not a photostat? Can you please let me know what media the piece was made with? Is the grey background the color of the paper or is it paint?

The response I got back was:

Amid

Thanks for the email.
The piece is original. The Grey is paint.

David

With that assurance, I Paypaled David Scheve the amount of $270, which was the price of the piece plus shipping. A couple of weeks later I received a package in the mail. With great anticipation and utmost carefulness, I opened the package. Now this should be the happy part of the story where I end up with an original piece of art by one of my favorite animation artists. Except for one small detail. The piece I received in the mail was a photostat.

I emailed him and told him I was shocked about how misleading he’d been. “There is not a single bit of paint in this entire piece,” I wrote. “It’s a copy of paint.” At first Scheve denied it outright and wrote back, “Amid, the piece is an original gouche (sic) painting. We don’t sell stats.” He finally relented and told me to send back the photostat for a full refund.

I sent it back to him via certified mail and he received it in mid-September 2009. It turns out that refunding my money–a not-insignificant sum of $270–wasn’t a priority for him. I let the oversight slide for a couple months, but in late-November I began calling and emailing him regularly to remind him that he owed me money. I even had to threaten a small claims suit if he didn’t return it by a certain date. The money finally arrived in January 2010.

Besides the obvious disappointment and anger about Scheve’s misrepresentation of the artwork, there are other things that bother me about the experience:

1.) As of this writing, over five months after he learned it was not an original piece of art, the piece is available for sale on The Deep Archives website in the “1950s/1960s NY” category. It is still labeled as “Original Animation Art” and the price remains unchanged. It saddens me to think that an inexperienced collector might fall prey to this listing and buy a fake piece of “original art.”

2.) Late last December, when I called David again asking him to refund my money, he screamed at me so violently and unexpectedly over the phone that it caused my ears to ring afterward. His unprofessionalism was such that after twenty seconds of conversation, all of it polite and courteous from my end, he yelled, “Amid, listen, I’m going to hang up on you in two seconds,” which he then proceeded to do.

3.) His lackadaisical attitude about refunding my money and how he stringed me along for months with his games. On September 25th he wrote, “Your refund will be processed and sent first thing MONDAY.” Not true. On November 28th he wrote, “I will be in on Monday, let me see what is going on.” He didn’t respond until I called him again. On December 8th he wrote, “I having (sic) trouble tracking down the initial payment paper work, can you tell me what day you sent it, so I can go back and refund it correctly.” So before he would return my money, months late mind you, he put the burden on me to provide his gallery with information. It went on and on like this.

Needless to say, I will never again be dealing with him, and I will urge everybody I know to exercise extreme caution should they choose to do business with him. There are plenty of reputable art dealers around. Unfortunately, it’s guys like David Scheve and his company The Deep Archives who continue to perpetuate the image of animation art dealers as slimy scumbags.

UPDATE 10:11am PT: One bit of good news. Since I posted the story today, the photostat of Ipana artwork is no longer listed as “Original Animation Art.” In fact, the listing has been removed entirely from their website.

UPDATE 1:44pm PT: David Scheve and his “friends” have been attempting to post inflammatory comments on the site for the past couple hours. One person, “Jaru Kempter,” who identified himself as a friend of David, has so far referred to me as “mad,” “bitchy,” and said, “It’s clear you’re a woman scorned.” It helps to know somebody’s gender before resorting to sexist remarks.

Scheve’s own comments have the audacity to pin the blame on me. He wrote, “As for AMID’s false claims; yes, he purchased a piece that turned out to be something OTHER than what it was thought to be. He was asked to return it for a full refund. He took forever to do so, which complicated the matter with paypal.”

For the record, I payed him via Paypal on August 14, 2009. I received the piece on August 22, 2009. When I sent it back, the post office attempted a certified mail delivery on September 11, 2009. It was less than a month from when I paid to the time the photostat was returned to his possession so it clearly did not take “forever to do so.” Scheve also claims that we are deleting positive comments from the site. That is most definitely not the case. The only ones we have deleted are the multiple insulting posts by the aforementioned “Jaru Kempter.”

UPDATE FEB. 10, 2:44pm PT: After this post yesterday, my lovely friend David Scheve put up a message on The Deep Archives website calling me a coward. He has since taken it down but I made a screengrab:

David Scheve

Below, in its entirety, is the post he wrote on Cartoon Brew which explains why he’s innocent and why I’m the real villain. The earlier update already breaks down the fallacies in his statement:

David from TheDeepArchives here and for the record we take what we do here at TheDeepArchives very seriously. As for AMID’s false claims; yes, he purchased a piece that turned out to be something OTHER than what it was thought to be. He was asked to return it for a full refund. He took forever to do so, which complicated the matter with paypal. As for Tom Warburton’s comments; I was INVITED at the last minute to the auction by an SPVA instructor. I was never given any such catalogue. The small staff here at TheDeepArchives doesn’t spend it’s time just acquiring new artwork. TheDeepArchives spends a great deal of time and effort promoting the Animator as an individual artist, rather than just a cog in the studio machine. The majority of the money raised in the gallery goes right back into the animation field in a variety of ways…. including restoration, preservation, museum exhibits, screening and new animated projects. We are probably the only gallery you’ll find that doesn’t pump those overpriced, mass produced limited edition animation “art” pieces into the market place. If Amid had wanted to write a serious piece to express his concerns he would have done just that, instead he used a COMICAL PICTURE he took of the internet to vent his misplace agression….I think his TRUE intention more than speaks for itself, and I find it dishearting how quick people are to jump on a onesided bandwagon. A number of people who’ve purchased from us AND read the blog; posted their favorable replies, called to say they found it odd how their more positive comments were removed.

UPDATE FEB. 12, 1:44pm PT: David Scheve sent our webhost, Webintellects, a DMCA Notification of Infringement about the photograph of him that we’re using at the top of the page. The image clearly falls under “fair use,” which is the doctrine in United States copyright law that allows limited use of copyrighted material without requiring permission from the rights holders, such as for commentary, criticism, news reporting, research, teaching or scholarship. If you are a lawyer who can help Cartoon Brew keep this image on the site, please get in touch with us through the masthead at the top of this site. Below is the message we got from Scheve’s lawyers.

February 12, 2010

FROM:
TDA TheDeepArchives, Inc.
[email protected]
551.998.4552

SUBJECT: ABUSE

WebIntellects registrant, CartoonBrew.com, has pirated and then published an image owned by David Scheve.
At this time we require immediate action taken for removal of the image from the WebIntellects server.

Dear Sir or Madam:

I am writing to inform you that your registrant, cartoonbrew.com, has pirated and published an image owned by David Scheve. I have a good faith belief that use of the copyrighted materials described above on the allegedly infringing webpages is not authorized by the copyright owner, its agent, or the law. At this time we require immediate removal of the image from the Webintellects server.

As pursuant to WebIntellects TOS and the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA), TheDeepArchives is fully within our right to inform WebIntellects of Copyright infringement against David Scheve.

You’ll find the image taken from Scheve being unlawfully used on the website “http://www.cartoonbrew.com/ideas-commentary/beware-the-deep-archives-and-david-scheve.html#comment-442234 is a self-portrait, naturally taken by Scheve. Mr. Scheve holds all rights to this image.

Within our legal right, we do recognize that the host server, WebIntellects, is also liable for any damages stemming from this infringement, or non-compliance for removal of said infringement.

Please proceed accordingly.

Under penalty of perjury: I am an authorized agent acting on behalf of Mr. Scheve. Under penalty of perjury consistent with United States Code Title 17, Section 512, that the information in the notification is accurate and that I am the copyright owner or am authorized to act on behalf of the owner of an exclusive right that is allegedly infringed.

Sincerely,

TDA TheDeepArchives

Paul Kowalchuk
cc. Jean Nicolosi, Esq.
David Scheve


  • david

    hahaha. this story would normally be upsetting but ends up being hilarious with his photo attached.

  • Chris Sobieniak

    Thanks Amid for stopping me from making a big mistake!

    I actually bought a few small things from this jerk a couple years ago, and should’ve knew better than when I was playing for just a cel of Tony the Tiger’s head over a xerox copy of the background/cels. :-(

  • http://www.elmwoodproductions.com Jon from Elmwood

    Thanks for the heads up!!!

  • Tedzey

    Man, the nerve of some people! Glad you’re sticking it to him Amid! Calling himself a “professional,” that’s no way to run a business!

  • Rio

    What a Son of a Bitch. Thanks for the heads up Amid. It’s a shame he’s even still in business.

  • jordan reichek

    ouch.

  • George

    Yikes, sorry you had to go through something like that with this guy Amid. HA! In “Type” he has it labeled as “Production concent art”, maybe the misspelling is his conscience attempting to reveal his misrepresentation, too bad I know he doesn’t have a conscience.

    I’ve been duped by David before, on eBay, and unfortunately got nothing in return. I wish I had known it was the same guy that I had tried to buy an unframed 6×8 inch painting from, which fortunately I didn’t, because he would not reply to a question asking why shipping was $40.

    It’s unfortunate that anyone need ever deal with unscrupulous sellers.

  • http://kazrocks.blogspot.com kazzer

    dear amid,
    i’m sorry you had to come into a contact with such a vile excuse for a business on the internet. i generally hate scams, but when one exploits artists and blackens the name of an art form in general, i can’t help but be reminded how much crap there is floating around in the e-capitalism realm. i would have also felt better for some reason if the guy was some drooling, mumbling, doddering madoff-type, but the fact that he appears to be a grinning, young self made type is even crappier. i wonder if this is his day job, or scamming is his one and only source of employment. ugh.

  • http://www.theaftend.com Allan

    What a crappy experience. One of the best ways we can express our opinions is by how we spend our money, and The Deep Archives won’t be getting any of mine! Thanks for the warning Amid.

  • http://n/a Mark Jens

    Amid, another trick these disreputable folk use is to string you along until the date for appeal to Paypal has passed, and then they just quit responding to you. As soon as they know you have little recourse, they don’t care. (By looking at the condition of a certain dealer’s eyes, I have a sneaking suspicion what he bought with your $250) So glad you got your refund!

    Mark

  • http://Mr.FunsBlog Floyd Norman

    Sorry to hear that sad story, Amid. Back in the fifties, I worked in 2-C, the second story wing where those commercials were being produced. And yes, all the work was being done in shades of grey because television was black&white in those days.

    We were surrounded by the wonderful work of Tom Oreb. I loved his designs as well. I wish there was some way I could have known. I would have grabbed something for you.

  • barney_miller

    It’s unfortunate that you had to experience this Amid. I bought several amazing pieces from this gallery a few years back and never had a problem. It looks like things have changed.

  • http://www.warnerart.com Eric

    Amid, that’s quite an unfortunate experience you had with The Deep Archives. I’ve bought from them in the past without incident, although nothing in the past few years. I know many others who have also purchased from the Archives without problems. Looking at his website, I do notice occasional (sometimes blatant) errors in the listings. A big problem with some of the dealers is that they stretch themselves way too thin. They are more concerned with acquiring new art (which is their livelihood) and making new sales (getting money into the bank) than they are providing an outstanding customer experience. It sounds like when you asked if the piece was painted he did not go and pull it from inventory to double check, he probably just relied on memory. At one point maybe he even had the original? I’m sure if you didn’t pester him for a refund you would have never received one because you simply would have fallen through the cracks. It’s a shame you were put through such a hassle for a piece that was just $250. I guess it goes to show that even when you ask the right questions there’s always a risk when you purchase something sight unseen.

  • http://www.michaelspornanimation.com/splog/ Michael Sporn

    Watch out, he producing animation now, as well. Low rent, he’s dealing dishonorably there, too.

  • http://asteriskpix.blogspot.com richard o’connor

    I’ve bought 1960s commercial artwork from this guy with no problem. It was a good experience.

    On the other hand, I have a canceled check somewhere from 2001 for a subscription to “Animation Blast” but only a single copy which was given to me by Oscar Grillo.

  • http://www.warnerart.com Eric

    Chris Sobieniak – The practice of putting a cel atop a xeroxed background is commonplace for presentation purposes in the animation market. Always, always, always ask if the background is a xerox or an original. There’s nothing wrong with a xeroxed background if you know that’s what you are getting. Usually you’ll know by the price on the piece. If they claim the background is original, go yet one more step and ask if it’s the original production background used in filming or if it’s a more recent hand-painted background re-created for presentation.

  • Hannah

    is that an afro?

  • http://www.inkandpixelclub.com Sara

    Unfortunately, my personal experiences with buying animation art have been kind of a mixed bag. Whe I was trying to get my husband a “Clone Wars” animation drawing for Christmas (the Tartaakovsky one), one dealer (who I will not mention by name, as I have had several gret transactions with them in the past) turned out not to have the drawing I wanted, or several other drawings that were shown on their site. I could understand one or two drawings having been sold and not yet noted as such on the website, but every drawing I was interested in seemed to be gone. I eventually had to tell the person I was speaking to as politely as possible that I just couldn’t shop like this.

    I tried another dealer without any better results. I pretty much had to go through the ordering process before they would even tell me if the item was in stock. I assume it wasn’t because they never got back to me. Fortunately, they never charged my credit card either.

    Does anyone know of any really great animation art dealers that sell online?

  • http://zeteos.blogspot.com/ mick

    you bought something off a smirking guido???
    Shame on you Amid

  • squirrel

    And a small tip for freelance artists- never let clients delay payment! Do not let them change their mind about the amount and date of the shipment! You should be paid for what you did WHEN you did it in full.

    Sometimes I wonder if this is a blog for public animation news and events, or a place to vent the blogger’s frustrations.

  • squirrel

    Also…. how is it that hacks always have the same hairdo?!

  • http://www.ryanmcculloch.com Ryan McCulloch

    Do Not F*** With Amid:)

  • http://www.warnerart.com Eric

    Sara – What many people who buy animation art don’t realize is that many gallery owners wheel and deal with one another. So you might have a dealer in California who is sending you art that they found through another dealer located in Chicago. So they don’t have the piece, they just have ACCESS to the art. The problem, as you discovered, is that the guy in Chicago might sell something and fail to mention it to the guy in California who posted all the (previously available) art online.

  • http://www.animationinsider.net/ Aaron H. Bynum

    Unfortunately, such are the whims of online bidding sites. Sometimes the source is good, and sometimes the source is “meh.”

    For example: head over to Bidz.com and rustle through their Fine Art section, which includes a lot of items run by Quality Art Auctions… you’ll see a ton of Hanna-Barbera artwork or Chuck Jones artwork (cels, sericels), which, as is the slogan of the bidding website, all begin at USD $1.00. Are they a steal? Or are you comfortable bidding on an obvious replica or an item in a officially duplicated series (sometimes, a promotional piece will have, say, less than 1000 items produced…)?

    A lot of the responsibility is shared, on the part of the seller (full disclosure) and on the part of the buyer (inquire, inquire, inquire)…

  • http://www.kohrtoons.com Robert Kohr

    @ Chris Sobieniak – Buying a cell over a Xerox is quite normal so long as they didn’t sell it as having the original background. Remember there are always many more cells than backgrounds in a shot, so they usually are just placed for aesthetics. Warner Bros. Store art was done the same way, even with originals.

    I got a gift of a Joe Ranft Board from Cars, it was advertised as signed. When I inspected it it was a reproduction signature. The lithograph (it is a pretty high quality print) was numbered so knew it was a print. Also it was purchased from New York’s Children’s Film Fest, so while it may not be real at least the money went to a worthy festival exposing young children to finer animation. That said it may not be an original but the intent behind it and the fact that it was a gift from someone who I care about made me plunk down $200 to have it framed, in the end I am still happy.

  • http://www.jasoncampbell.com Jason Campbell

    Sad, he does such a good job playing Morgan on NBC’s “Chuck”.

  • Chris Allard

    Sara, go to The Van Eaton Gallery online-I’ve had great dealings with them.

  • http://www.rawlsy.blogspot.com Rawls

    Two words… False Advertising = big trouble if you or somebody reports this douche to the authorities.

  • robert pope

    He’s ALSO the same guy who sells Peanuts drawings purportedly by Charles Schulz himself that are OBVIOUSLY drawn by a blindfolded 3rd grader with a blunt “El Marko” felt-tip pen (they’re often up on Ebay, and go for outrageous moolah) He currently has a Peppermint Patty and Marcie drawing up colored with a crayon! Oy.

  • http://smomotion.com :: smo ::

    that stinks man. the only bad animation related purchased i’ve had was trying to buy a raymond scott 100 year anniversary bobblehead and cd from the archives…and never getting it after i was charged 50 bucks and them never responding to any of my emails or calls.

    which was weird because when i discussed sheet music with them in 2005 they were really helpful.

    thanks for the tip to the rest of us though!

  • http://warburtonlabs.blogspot.com mr. warburton

    i also had an unpleasant experience with this guy a couple years back. we’ve always made it clear that the ASIFA-EAST Used Animation Art Auction is an opportunity for those in and around the business to afford great animation art- so we have a strict NO DEALERS policy. yet this guy turns up, buys some of the best pieces from the auction, and then puts them up for sale on his website the very next day for twice what he bought them for. i never would have known if someone hadn’t tipped me off. when i confronted him about it, he claimed he didn’t know that dealers weren’t allowed, even though it was marked VERY clearly on the catalog AND verbally announced more than once. he DID take the items off his site and claimed he’d keep them for his ‘personal collection’…
    uh huh…
    sure.

  • Dave

    I’ve ordered item from the Deep Archives in the past (including quite recently) and I’ve never had any problems.

    I’m with “squirrel”, I thought this Cartoon Brew was to discuss “the latest news and trends in animation”, not Amid’s latest frustration. Is it too much to ask to keep the blog posts professional?

  • David

    Awesome. Slime like this guy need to be exposed. Excellent work of professionally making mincemeat out of this asshat clown.

  • Merv Carville

    He’s producing animation now? It’s a matter of time before Sony hires him as VP of Production.

  • Compn

    i hate ebay/paypal and they do nothing to help in situations such as this.

  • http://www.ecady.com Cady

    Have you reported him to the BBB? Please do!

  • Dave!

    “Sometimes I wonder if this is a blog for public animation news and events, or a place to vent the blogger’s frustrations.”

    Why can’t it be both? I don’t see anything wrong with Amid venting frustrations, especially since 1) he can do anything he wants–it’s *his* blog and 2) it’s clearly related and of interest to animation fans.

  • Mike Cagle

    Wow — what a jerk.

  • Hulk

    Another tip for the future Amid: don’t use paypal or pay from your checking account or debit card. Pay with your credit card. That way you can dispute the charge if you’re unhappy with the results. The credit card company will issue you an immediate refund (they call it a temporary until you’re proven right) and THEY deal with the scumbag who ripped you off. MasterCard is great at that. Trust me, their tactics can be much more effective than yours in getting your money back and getting it back quickly- and the good news is you can still rip the guy a new one on your blog when it’s over! I’m glad you got your money back. Thanks for the warning. I hope he goes out of business- or grows a conscience. Whichever comes first.

  • Chris Sobieniak

    Thanks for the note Robert. I thought I bought the entire body of a character only to see it was just the head (the rest was on the xeroxed BG itself).

  • Bob

    Why would you buy anything from a website that looked like that? Looks like a website from 1993 and feels about as secure as my grandma’s purse.

  • Ariel

    Watch OUT for http://www.DAKCOLLECTBLES.com aswell.

    I’ve ordered a rare (*bootleg) cartoon Dvd and its taking ages to get here.

    Stupid me, i did some research on this guy AFTER I made the purchase. Things to learn..

    Thanks for the post AMid. We should all look out for forgers in this technology age of ours.

  • http://thadkomorowski.com Thad

    Why wasn’t this tagged under “charlatans”?

    I haven’t felt the pain of being gypped on artwork or a film print recently, but when I do, I plan to follow Amid’s lead.

  • http://www.atomicbearpress.com Brian

    Yikes, the DarkArchives.com had a message on their page calling Amid a coward (which seemed like an image and not text you could copy and quote) and now the site is not loading. Interesting.

  • Justin James Williams

    Thanks, I was going to buy from this guy too! Saved me money and stress it seems!

  • Thom Foolery

    Chris Sobieniak – The EXACT same thing happened to me with the same guy. B&W 50′s comercial cel with Tony and Tony Jr, right?

    Robert Kohr – I think what Chris’s problem was not so much that the background was a copy, but the entire body of Tony and Tony Jr. I bought one of the same cels from this guy under the impression that the cel was the full body of Tony, but it turned out to be just his head and the Xerox was the body and background. I was going to demand my money back, but I re-read his item listing and saw that it was indeed stated that it was head-only. It was just kinda hidden and the point wasn’t made very clearly, so I guess that’s my fault for reading the listing more carefully. However the print of the body/background looked like total crap! It looks like it was a jpeg printed on an ink-ribbon printer and you can see the printer lines running all across the page.

  • Dave

    Here’s the response from thedeeparchives.com:
    http://www.thedeeparchives.com/images/products/home_left_2.jpg

  • it’s pat

    When things like this happens there can be 2 sides to the story. Amid’s side sounds like the right one here, and a good thing for readers to know.

    On the other side, unique items circulate and dealers do wheel and deal with each other. Many dealers start with literally nothing and get established that way, and it involves pressures and risks. Sometimes they get squeezed between a source and a customer and get blamed for things beyond their control. The risks have been around since markets were invented, especially in the art world. Buyers should be aware of them and if there’s ever any doubt, ask and verify. It was smart of Amid to email and ask about the authenticity of the piece he bought. Hopefully, this post will help the dealer to improve his service and come to see that a quick sell isn’t worth as much as a long lasting reputation, and he can make it better in the future.

    I have had many experiences buying and reselling and had to put in many claims when the item was less than expected. As Hulk mentioned a few posts back, the charge disputing process is good to know. Paypal is not very good with this. I have put in claims after getting falsely advertised bootleg DVDs, and had Paypal deny them saying “we do not guarantee quality of merchandise” because the seller just proved they shipped (they could ship an empty box.) If Paypal fails, take it to your bank and you can dispute a charge to paypal itself. If you have a worthless item they will still require you to ship it back- but if you have been cheated and it costs too much to ship back, make sure your legitimate claim takes that requirement into account.

    In the early days of Ebay, like 10-12 years ago I knew of a dealer (an ex-business partner of someone I knew) who sold “original” disney cels, which he got by paying a high school student to paint them. Watch out.

  • Melanie

    Wow Amid-
    My personal experience with The Deep Achieves has been nothing but stellar- I frequently purchase both animation and fine art. I receive excellent customer service and NEVER have had any issues. Sorry you had a bad experience.

  • Dock Miles

    Sad tale of a vile deal, indeed. I’m sure zillions of folks have had happy experiences buying artworks on line, but art is one thing for which I won’t pull the lettuce unless I can look at the item in my hot little hands.

  • Melanie

    Sorry I spelled something wrong, a lot of tough critics here– ARCHIEVES!

  • George

    Mr. Scheve’s public reply (now emblazoned on the front page of TDA) fails to mention anything about the fact the the returned item, which Amid clearly detailed as not being what was advertised, was published to the website as available after it was returned.

    Something tells me Amid may not have posted this had the item not been erroneously re-listed, in an attempt to dupe somebody else. Amid got his money back, and that’s great, but to me, there’s two big problems here:

    1. The fact that an item that was returned because it was not what it was supposed to be was again made available.

    2. The way this situation was handled by TDA

    Point number 2 certainly has two sides, but point number 1 cannot be denied by TDA, and that’s what would keep me from purchasing at their site.

  • squirrel

    Okay, I admit the post does offer a warning to other artists who may be in the same boat… so it’s not entirely a vent. But I do agree that problems can arise not only from trickery, but from miscommunication (the art itself had to be corresponded through California and THEN in Chicago, where there might have been some confusion). But it doesn’t forgive the poor customer treatment and unprofessionalism.

  • Robert Schaad

    Thanks for the heads up, Amid. Your mentioning of this incident/transaction on CB is entirely valid.

  • http://cartoonsof1939.blogspot.com/ Ted

    I also got one of the Frosties cels (it’s Tony the Tiger, but it’s not actually Frosted Flakes, it’s a non-US brand). I passed on/was outbid on many of the Frosties auctions because there was too little cel for the price (for me). But from what I saw, the auctions all clearly documented what was a cel and what was a copy in each auction. You needed to read the item descriptions to have known it, but everyone should read the item descriptions of anything they’re going to buy on eBay. This doesn’t help when the item description is wrong, of course, as in the scenario Amid appears to have been presented with (nor does it excuse bad customer service), but the Frosties auctions were pretty clear about the items for auction.

  • Tom

    Amid, I’m sorry for the pain in the butt this little so and so has caused to you, and rest assured this little pr*ck will get the red flag whenever he or his name show up anywhere in the future.

    His picture makes me angry at Seth Green too, for some reason.

  • http://www.taberanimation.com Taber Dunipace

    This guy is an idiot! He could’ve let it go and maybe left some doubt in our minds as to whether this was just a misunderstanding but this CONTINUED juvenile behavior only serves to remove all doubt!

  • http://www.jeffereycook.blogspot.com Jeff Cook

    Thanks for the great, yet tragic story Amid, the warning is much appreciated.
    I think you should consider removing the link to his site as well, to further discourage readers of CB from going there.

  • Chris Sobieniak

    That was it Thom Foolery! I thought I was paying for the whole body but got the head over the xeroxed pic! I should’ve knew better than, but I can see what they were trying to do, so it wasn’t a total loss if you just had a part of the body on a cel and nothing more.

  • TheGunheart

    Amid, the one thing I would’ve done is kept his inflammatory remarks intact in the comments. That wouldn’t have given him a leg to stand on.

  • Krayon

    Man I feel sorry for you Amid (and other people who got scammed) to get ripped off from David “Scheme”. I know not to buy from him in the future. Glad you got your money back.

  • http://www.duck-walk.com Marc D

    I can’t speak on the value of his animation art, but that Facebook photo is unquestionably priceless.

  • http://www.fleabeemedia.com The Flea

    I’m sorry that you had a poor experience, but was the harsh attack completely necessary?

    Obviously, I don’t know EXACTLY what happened but it’s pretty clear you were dissatisfied….but how is posting a “not so appealing” picture of the guy and a long-winded story going to help? Sure it’s a warning, but I feel as though it’s more de-productive than protective. People have obviously had very positive experiences with the site (I even recall there even being postcards for the website on SVA’s animation department bulletin board) and the consistent updating only takes up more time and draws attention AWAY from the POSITIVE aspects of animation. It stirs up anger and it’s just a catalyst for people to send angry letters to the guy.

    Even IF the guy is a rip-off artist, I don’t think he’s quite worth THAT much of our time. A simple bad review would have sufficed. I guess I feel this way because this site gets considerably more traffic than the deeparchives.com (I’ve checked quantcast). It’s basically thousands of people gaining up on one individual and a few followers.

    As mentioned, I’ve never purchased anything from the guy and I do appreciate and respect your opinion. I just think it was a tad harsh.

  • Sam

    By trying to scam $270, he just bought himself a really bad advertisement from Amid because when you Google up The Deep Archive, 4th result leads to this post. Hell, search David Scheve too and it does the same.

    Way to go David Scheve!! Shame on ya.

  • http://checkeredgeekcartoons.blogspot.com Zach Cole

    Never buy animation art from an aged Dane Cook. Or even a young Dane Cook. Oh, speaking of hacks.

  • http://www.inkandpixelclub.com Sara

    Eric> That might have been the case with the second dealer I went to (though it still doesn’t excuse them never getting back to me). But in the case of the first dealer, the woman I was on the phone wiht was literally flipping through drawings as I described the one I was interested in. So it wasn’t a matter of the drawing being at another location and being sold from there. They just weren’t keeping their website updated.

  • Alberto Sed

    Don’t worry, people like Steve don’t last long in the market.

  • timmyelliot

    Heh, it looks like in a google search Deep Archives, this post is now the second web-site that comes up with the “Beware…” heading (the first two listings are to his website).

  • Mark Newgarden

    “Production Concent Art”?
    “1950ss”?

    Deep…

  • http://chippyandloopus.com/ John S

    This douche can attempt to defend himself all he wants, the bottom line is that he misrepresented his product as “original” and it clearly was not. For that, he deserves all the ridicule, derision and bad press you can dish out.
    He is a lying sack of shit. The internet is full of creeps like him.
    I like that he looks the part. You should hold a caricature contest, Amid! Winner gets a free copy of your next book? Maybe?

  • Sprat

    Amid, people get ripped off online all the time. C’mon man, it’s not exactly news and you didn’t even lose money. While there is value in posting prudent warnings, I can’t help but feel that with all this personal overkill, you’ve just sold out your journalistic integrity over the late refund of $270.

  • Tom

    Sprat, Amid is warning all of us about this site. “Man bites Amid” is news, from where I stand.

  • albert schlesinger

    David is a great guy and a great seller.I have bought alot of items over the years from him and they were much better than i thought they were.He is aman of his word and his items are always what he says.Truly a great man al.He even drove to my house to drop off the items al.

  • Daniel Spencer

    Not a good Idea to take on Amid. Amid along with Jerry are highly trusted and respected and the most knowledgable animation historians in the animation community.To try and pull one over on him just illustrates how foolish he was. His shoddy attitude will cost him many customers. We should thank Amid for highlighting the pitfalls of purchasing animation art.

  • http://mutatingraven.deviantart.com Raven M.

    I always assumed this blog was about “animation community” and hell, we’re the community! We’re being alerted! How else will these swindlers be held responsible for this sort of behavior if no one is willing to enforce ethics? I see a lot of people making the excuse for this guy that he somehow didn’t know what he was selling. How is that ok? Amid had to practically beg for his money back. If someone else is less persistent about getting a refund, does that mean that they deserve to lose out on almost 300 bucks?

    That sucks. :(

  • Daniel Spencer

    *UPDATE* Just googled “David Scheve” and this brew post comes up second and third behind a zoominfo profile that cleary is a different man. Oh the power of the internet!

  • Adam Oliver

    It comes as no surprise that someone is in the animation art game for the wrong reasons. It’s a crooks playing field with most not knowing enough to pick an original from a fake.

    I have no experience with this company but I think that allows me to be impartial and say that reading both sides, The Deep Archives chap comes off sounding extremely false and grasping at straws, if you will.

    Just one last point, if this David was at all professional and as successful and up for promoting animation as an art form, as he says he does, then why has he not just made a public apology and compensated Amidi? Why would he risk his business like this when (if he is so ingrained in animation circles) he would know that cartoonbrew is the big cheese for animation news? It just doesn’t sound like an honest man.

    I would like to know what projects he has given back to, and which films the deep archives have helped fund. Restoration and all that of cels does not count if it’s for your own financial gain! I might have to get myself one of their annual reports…

    Thanks for posting Amidi, the name will stick in my head.

  • http://www.cannedgeek.com/ Kyle

    Normally I might dismiss this kind of story as overblown internet drama over something as silly as a transaction, but this is actually quite an interesting story. You just can’t go around being an unprofessional jerk – especially not when one of your buyers is a writer for one of the most popular animation blogs on the net.

  • http://trnorton.com Tennessee

    Guys I just went quickly and checked out this clowns site. Check out the stop motion puppets he is listing circa 1970s and 1980s – I can tell you having been a fabricator profesionally since Nightmare Before Xmas that there is NO WAY that the doughboy were used in actual commercial production – I can see the flashing from the mold seam in the low res photo ! he is asking $2500

    BUYER BEWARE !!!!

  • charles

    Interesting Amid, that you had such a bad experience, yet you went back to visit the site….It seems everyone reading this is with the understanding you got ripped off; but you didn’t get ripped off!!! you got an item, that wasn’t what it was suppose to be, and when you brought it to their attention, they refunded your money albeit not to you liking…and if it was really such a bad experience why did you wait so long to blog about it?? Seriously why!!! I went and checked their site out to see for myself and there it was PLAIN AS DAY, the reason…..it’s funny that with a book on UPA coming out, it all made sense…..That gallery just got in a bunch of Howdy Doody art based on the UPA cartoon….and it must have sent you through the roof. So I decided to call and ask for their side of the story……. and they were quite polite and professional, and forthright with what happened…..their explanation similiar to yours, but with more details which you appear to have left out……… Amid I’m sorry to say, but I agree with one of your other readers…you’ve sold out your journalistic integrity…. And it is clear to those of us who can actually think for ourselves, this isn’t a news or a warning blog, but a place for you to grind a personal axe…..I’m surprised Jerry Beck would want to be associated with you; because he is actually a far superior historian than you…..And I don’t believe what Mr. Scheve wrote….you don’t have the guts to post this comment either

  • amid

    FYI, the comment above by Charles uses the email address [email protected], the same private email that I used to Paypal David Scheve the money for the fake artwork and the same email I used to have multiple communications with the gallery. Using store employees to pose as objective commenters is one of the dumbest things they could do, especially since they don’t even bother covering their tracks, but they insist on digging that hole deeper and deeper. I’m happy to put up with this abuse though if it prevents others from having to experience the same crappy treatment from this gallery.

  • http://zeteos.blogspot.com/ mick

    ha ha… ‘journalistic integrity SOLD’ ahhhhhhhh ha ha
    yeah and you aren’t as good a historian as Jerry… how do you bare the insults Amid????

  • http://www.warnerart.com eric

    Sara> Don’t be so sure the gallery rep had the art in front of them. What they do is work from FAXED images a lot of the time. So yes, they have the art images in front of them to reference but it may not be the actual work itself. Just something to be aware of.

  • http://andrewatteberry.blogspot.com Andrew Lee

    HAAHHAHAHA….Sorry Charlie!

    That’s too funny!

  • Ethan

    Amid, I have sometimes disagreed with you in the past, about journalistic integrity and all… but I fully admire and support the way you decided to fight and exposed this. I’ve been ripped off before with misrepresented stuff (on ebay), and it’s no fun. If I had the resources you have, I would have used them the same way, and thank you for the warning.

    It’s a very funny sequence of events, by the way, all the way up to charles post :-)

  • http://jessicaplummer.blogspot.com Jessica Plummer

    I still think the funniest thing about this is Amid being mistaken for a woman.

  • Dock Miles

    “but you didn’t get ripped off!!! you got an item, that wasn’t what it was suppose to be, ”

    Ding ding ding ding! We have the Cognitive Dissonance Winner of the Day!!

  • it’s pat

    Oh my god, this “gallery” just keeps making it worse and worse for themselves.

    I commented “there’s usually 2 sides” before… and was a little charitable to them.

    There is NO possible worse way to dig themselves deeper than they are doing. Very funny, except they’re making things a little harder for honest dealers who aren’t scumbags.

    I hope they look forward to their future begging for quarters on the sidewalk.

  • http://chippyandloopus.com/ John S

    I like that Amid provided “Charles’s” e-mail for us.
    Any pranksters out there care to give “Charles” the business?

  • timmyelliot

    It would be funny if they mistook Amid for a woman. He’d be one uuuugly woman (just kidding!)

    But their scorned comment might just be an allusion to the line from the poem “Nor Hell a Fury, like a Woman scorn’d.” More as a way of referring to how pissed they think he is, not a suggestion of his gender.

  • http://www.ziptheusa.com Cindy

    You have got to love the power of the internet to expose the fraudulent business folks.

  • http://www.myspace.com/pilsnerspicks Pilsner Panther

    Coming in here kinda late… but Amid, you’re my new hero! Have you considered a second career as a Consumer Advocate? You’d be damn good at it, man!

    The internet is definitely a two-sided coin. It’s brought the world to our doorsteps, but it’s brought all the snake-oil salesmen in the world right with it.

  • http://chippyandloopus.com/ John S

    Lemme just add my 2 cents yet again: I’ve had issues with Amid in the past, but in this case, he is performing the function of consumer advocate. In this case, his journalistic integrity is sound. Like Consumer Reports and many local news stations, he is reporting fraudulent activity and warning us to beware. Thanks Amid!!
    Screw you David Scheme, you douche!

  • http://www.ghiblicon.blogspot.com daniel thomas macinnes

    This is just like that Simpson’s episode where Bart buys an Itchy & Scratchy animation cel, and he only gets part of an arm.

    I have absolutely nothing but contempt and scorn for scam artists like this “art gallery.” These are nothing but two-bit swindlers out to pick your pocket, and they harm the reputations of all artists everywhere. It’s hard for us to sell our artwork online, and The Deep Archives just makes things harder.

    Three cheers for Amid and Cartoon Brew. Your hard work and dedication is always appreciated.

  • http://www.inkandpixelclub.com Sara

    OK, I wasn’t really considering giving the guy my business to begin with, but the immaturity with which he is conducting himself has confirmed that he is not someone I want to have any kind of transaction with. I don’t care whether you are a huge multinational corporation or two guys and a box; if you want to be perceived as a serious place of business, you don’t get into the fray when someone criticizes you, or even when someone says you are the worst company in the entire history of the world. Calling the people who criticize you cowards just makes you look unprofessional. Reputable companies don’t make it personal.

    Eric> I will keep that in mind, thank you. As I said, I have had other positive experiences with this dealer in the past and will likely do business with them again in the future.

  • http://chippyandloopus.com/ John S

    Legal action? to remove his douchey picture? REally.
    What a pussy.

  • http://none joe

    I would ignore that DMCA notification completely, if their was any real copyright infringement going on with his publicly available picture, then he would be able to issue a court order to remove it, to your hosting provider and they would take it down with the law’s enforcement. That DMCA email is a load of junk that was just a last attempt tactic that has no real backing. I applaud you for standing up to a shady business that is scamming people for profit.

  • Sprat

    I’m no lawyer but here’s my two cents: DMCA notices are generally not to be ignored, but in the case he has no legal leg to stand on and it’s a scare tactic. If a DMCA is ignored it merely gives the issuer grounds to proceed with legal action. But I can’t believe he would be interested in spending the money to actually do that over a photo; especially considering he would ultimately lose the case, giving you possible grounds to counter-sue to recover any legal costs.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dmca

  • Ben

    Wow…just wow. Something’s not right here. I mean when a supposedly professional business resorts to dummy posts, threatening letters, bully tactics…how does that make them look good? It’s even worse than it was before, and I certainly will never do business with this particular gallery. Oh, and is it me or does his picture make him look like the long lost brother of Seth Green?

  • Danny Smith

    Thanks for sharing your story Amid. David Scheve sounds like a real piece of work. I will definitely be avoiding his store and will advise all of my animation friends to do the same.

  • David D. Duncan

    I’d like to put in another good word for the Van Eaton Galleries. You can order with confidence from these folks, who know what they have and what it is worth. And plenty of stellar customer service to boot. And no, this was not a paid announcement…just based on good personal experiences in the past.

  • OM

    …”Dave” quiffed:

    “I’m with “squirrel”, I thought this Cartoon Brew was to discuss “the latest news and trends in animation”, not Amid’s latest frustration. Is it too much to ask to keep the blog posts professional?”

    …Amid, I assume you’re checking the IP addresses of comments like this?

  • Christmas_Boy

    Wow. All of this happened to me with the same people. (At least three different events with them.) Long story short, I used to have an animation website, now I don’t. I bought some items on ebay from them, they arrived broken and they said I broke them myself. I did not. In another transaction I was supposed to get an animation cel (it turned out to be a xerox), and I had paid extra money for a special art piece by an animation artist that was not what was promised. They were also supposed to pass along a book I’d created to that artist for a review, they never did. They also hounded a DVD site I used to review for until they fired me. Not a very professional group at all if you ask me.

  • Cece

    I just stumbled onto this blog when I googled “The Deep Archives” and I am SO GLAD that I am able to prevent a unfortunate mistake of purchasing his goods. Thank you for this entry.

  • matt

    I have bought a few pieces, and asked for certificates of authenticity. And NEVER recieved thos documents. I will no longer purchase from The Deep Archives.