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A New Low For Online Animation Contests

Animation Procreation

The Internet is home to many embarassing animation “contests” nowadays, but none moreso than this new one called “Animation Procreation” sponsored by Dailymotion and Animation Magazine. When I saw the above banner plastered on the homepage of videosharing site DailyMotion last week, I immediately thought two things: “Who the hell is Loren Bouchard?” and “Why would I want a development deal with him?”

I originally assumed he’s just the latest two-bit development exec at some TV network. But as it turns out, he’s not even that. He’s a show creator: one-half the creator of Home Movies and solo creator of another awful looking and sounding “Adult Swim” series I’ve never heard of, Lucy, Daughter of the Devil.

Perhaps the contest organizers can explain what a four-month “development deal” entails with a guy who himself is at the mercy of producers and networks, who has no production resources, and who has no money to invest in your project. Add a dollar to this stunning prize package and it still won’t buy you a cup of coffee at Starbucks. Then again, maybe getting advice from the person who’s responsible for this is reward enough:

Home Movies

The Dailymotion contest page offers this gem: “Loren Bouchard will watch all the videos and judge based on originality, animation style and potential for development.” Because if there’s anybody who’s qualified to judge originality and style it’s an artist whose own work exhibits neither traits. After this, you may as well have your parenting skills judged by Britney Spears.

Why would any half competent artist who aspires to create quality work want to receive advice from the creator of some of the most embarassing work this medium has ever seen? If DailyMotion and Animation Magazine had any true desire or intent to encourage new talent, then they would have offered a prize that was meaningful and relevant to creators. As it is, this “contest” is a slap in the face to animation artists everywhere.

  • Hey Amid – I’d love to see all of the successful network pitches YOU’VE made, before I can get a good idea of what and what shouldn’t be considered “embarassing”. Seriously, is there nothing in the animation industry that can happen without a damn indignant crusade happening?

  • Charles

    For all the excellent reasons to visit this site, there’s always the occasional reminder that people who are REALLY INTO A THING aren’t remotely objective, and are sometimes completely clueless.

    Home Videos is a very witty show and the animation is unique and likeable. Maybe it’s not always “in service of the story/characters/your snobbery”, but it’s always charming and funny.

    That said, I dunno shit about what real animators think about the contest. Sounds pretty crappy to me.

  • I’m waiting for the American Idol/Hell’s Kitchen style show for animators where we get back stab, and compete for what every American truly wants…a job!!

  • slowtiger

    On the other side of the medal you have all those striving animators-in-development who pester their specific software forum with their “vote for me in this contest” posts. Maybe they deserve each other. Maybe once in a while something original, or just something a bit better than mediocre emerges from that. In the meantime, those who don’t need those contests, don’t participate.

  • Mike

    I don’t know where you have been but there are FAR worse animation issues out there than this. This just sounds like you have beef with DailyMotion or Animation Magazine.

  • amid

    Mike – The Internet will be the breeding ground for many new shows and characters over the coming years. Cheapening the creative process and trying to fool young creators with idiotic contests like this is a SERIOUS issue that I feel is worthy of addressing.

  • Kyle Maloney

    Home Movies rocks dude. the animation is intentionally bad looking, to look like it was animated by a child. and it Works. (though I prefered it before it went to flash)

    daughter of the devil however, I couldn’t stand watching more than a few minutes of it.

  • I think most supporters of your argument are all tired out by the last ridiculous contest. That and it’s almost Christmas. But yes, this is ridiculous. I’d rather post on YouTube with promises of internet fame and self-merchandising potential than sign my rights away in a contest like this. I think everyone who enters should be aware of what rights they’re giving up when they enter contests like these or even real development deals. You can’t be the next Walt Disney if you don’t own your creations. And if you don’t own your creations, you have very little say about their quality and have no right to bitch and moan about the state of the animation industry.

  • Yet another reason why I believe this site is so important.

    Amid, you’ve cleared the fancy pants build up away from another crappy ‘contest’ to reveal it’s true nature. A task that I more than applaud you for.

    “Seriously, is there nothing in the animation industry that can happen without a damn indignant crusade happening?”

    No, there’s really not anything that happens within this industry that doesn’t have negative feedback.
    And it’s because 90% of the people in charge of these “contests” have everything BUT animation in mind…. and to top it off, they have beyond unqualified ‘professionals’ passing judgment on pitches.

    This ‘contest’ is just another exhibit of the lack of respect toward artists in this industry and a perfect example of how backward and crooked this industry can be.

    Only in the animation industry would you find unqualified executives putting on a ‘contest’ where the prize is worse than winning 5th place at your local bowling alley on seniors night. You would literally be worse off for winning this contest.

    It would be like playing in the Superbowl and the winner gets to maybe win a used helmet from the star quarterback of a local high school.

    So a final word to those of you who aren’t entering:

    congratulations…’ve won more by doing nothing.

  • Alex

    Yeah, you don’t know Bouchard because you don’t watch Adult Swim, but then again most normal people don’t know Bob Clampett. LDotD is a brilliant show, respected on its channel. And why can’t there be any respect of LDotD, at least minimal? Particularly when you don’t know what it is. It looks like you hate LDotD, and this website never made its hatred of Adult Swim secret. But its the ratings winner for its time slot, against Leno and Letterman. I’d love to work with Bouchard. If there’s anything better out there, all the power to it, but this doesn’t sound awful.

  • Loren Bouchard is my hero…



  • David

    I do own all the Home Movies DVDs and the Cartoon Modern book, but now I like one of them more than the other. Shame on your closed-mindedness!

  • Adam

    Ouch! And amen!
    I love the “it looks bad on purpose” excuse! It’s a helluva lot easier than the “it looks bad because I have a tenuous grasp on what it is I’m supposed to be doing” line.

  • Chris

    In regards to someone who commented that the animation on Home Movies was intentionally bad looking; with South Park, Family Guy, Aqua Teen, etc. where are the shows with intentionally good looking design and animation. How can having an aesthetically pleasing show go out of style?!! It scares me that someone is giving the guy who created something as terrible looking as that any say about the quality of someone else’s animation.

  • Zettaichan

    I understand that you feel these contests are unfair and harmful, and I definitely sympathize with that view.

    But why the gratuitous slams on Loren Bouchard? Home Movies may not be to everyone’s taste, but the animation has a distinctive style that suits the sensibility and viewpoint of the series, which is about a seven-year-old would-be film director, his family, friends and projects. And you admit that you haven’t even SEEN Lucy, so why the hate for it?

    The outpouring of bile against Bouchard just takes away from the very valid point you’re making about the misleading and crappy nature of these contests.

  • Tube Socks McGee

    Maybe instead of ranting about online contests aimed at discovering new talent, you should give aspiring show creators advice for getting accomplished TV producers to look at their pilots. Perhaps people should just throw their stuff up on that vacuum known as YouTube and hope and pray the right person stumbles across it. Loren Bauchard has been associated with some very funny modern shows. Does someone have to be dead 50 years to get any repsect or even be acknowledged by Cartoon Brew? This site seems to be stuck in the WABAC machine.

  • Mike

    amid – you aren’t really making yourself look any better. there are plenty of people who would love to win this, yet by what you have written, they are idiots. no one is forcing this contest upon the artists, and the people that don’t want to enter will do exactly that. i don’t see how making an angry “I HATE THIS CONTEST AND EVERYONE INVOLVED” post does anything.

    Justin wrote, “Amid, you’ve cleared the fancy pants build up away from another crappy ‘contest’ to reveal it’s true nature.
    A task that I more than applaud you for.”

    I honestly have no idea why you feel that there is some deep dark plot to destroy animation in this contest. Your points would be taken more seriously if it weren’t for the “I WAS TURNED DOWN BY ___” tone.

  • Sara

    I just want to say Lucy Daughter of the Devil is hilarious and, although it may not be great animation wise, their is some serious comedic talent working on that show. Eugene Mirman, Jon Benjamin, Jon Glaser..

    There are very few shows on Adult Swim that are even remotely good, but I recommend Home Movies and Lucy, Daughter of the Devil.

  • Butters

    Maybe if Amid would get off John K’s nuts and take the Colerase out of his ass for 2 seconds he’d might be able to enjoy a cartoon without having to pick it apart. I graduated college with an honors in Animation and because of elitists like him and others who post here I decided not to continue in the industry because it left a bad taste in my mouth.

    Compare Snow White to South Park for a second. Yes, in terms of animation, design, etc Snow White is much better, but I’d rather watch South Park any day of the week. Does this mean I don’t know the difference between “good” and “bad” animation? No.

    Stop with the Clampett and Chuck Jones nut hugging!
    They are not the end all and be all of animation.

  • *raises his hand for a question* …Uhm… What’s wrong with doing what you love to do and being able to get paid for it despite what other people think? Or is this something a person likely to get outcasted from the industry would ask?…

  • Emily

    What? I can hardly believe someone can’t appreciate Home Movies.

  • Dave

    I think the arguments about the contest are definitely valid, but the barrage of insults towards the animation’s creator cheapens it somewhat. You seemed to spend more time insulting the creator than you did discussing the contest itself, which is a shame because that particular argument is a lot more subjective.

  • Ahh layoff Amid, he’s entitled to his taste, which I tend to agree with most of the time even though I too own all the Home Movies dvds, along with the Venture Bros. and probably soon, Dr. Katz. And what’s this??? I also own the first two seasons of Aqua Teen Hunger Force?!? Holy shit!!! Oh well, they’re funny and with the exception of Venture Bros, they all look amazingly awful.

    Personally, I find it refreshing somewhat can talk shit and not be afraid of “burning a bridge” at a network or suffering some other supposed awful fate everyone on here (who works in the industry) is frightened to death of.

    I don’t know, I’m with Rajesh on this one, and I believe in a roundabout way, Amid is as well. Artists need to stop waiting for a networks to swoop down and “save” you, there’s so much oppurtunity out there nowadays, I think it’s good someone gives people a bit of a reality check.

  • Daniel Pierce

    Animation Magazine went south when it stopped writing about artists and began championing two bit wannabe toy execs slumming in animation.

  • Mike,

    The reason I feel there’s a “plot to destroy animation” within these contests is because they have Loren Bouchard judging animation. You might as well have my mom be a judge….she’s seen a cartoon or 2 before..

    Loren Bouchard (according to what I could find) is NOT an animator….hell i couldn’t even find out if he’s in development or not.
    so to bait newcomers with the promise that they’ll get a devleopment deal with Loren Bouchard is ridiculous.

    Secondly…To assume I’ve been burned by one of these contests is an unfair comment. While it may seem that way, I can assure you, I was not turned down by anyone….simply because I don’t enter these contests. For one thing, I inform myself about them (and after reading the fine print, it’s enough of a reason for anyone not to enter) But also…I would rather put the time in and have the pay off be worth the effort… than to throw in to some flunky contest in the hopes that Nobody Mcgee sees my work.

    Loren Bouchard may have more under his belt than I, but it’s what’s under his belt that matters….and it’s not brutally impressive

    Sorry if that’s hard for you to hear but it’s the truth. I wouldn’t piss and moan about something if the end result was worth the effort.

  • For the life of me I can’t understand why this contest is even remotely newsworthy, and it seems more like an excuse for Amid to rant at length on how Loren Bouchard SUCKS HARD. Even though Home Movies is one of the sharpest and most intelligent animated shows to hit the air in the past decade, but oh yeah THE ANIMATION IS UGLY AND GROSS AND A BLIGHT ON OUR INDUSTRY or something. I know that about 90 percent of animated TV shows aren’t suited to the particular (sometimes peculiar) tastes of those who actually work in the animation industry, but get a grip. And at least WATCH his new show before damning it to the pits of Cartoon Hell.

    Echoing what other comments have stated, this contest is silly, sure, but its hardly worth getting in a huff over.

  • J. J. Hunsecker

    I’m shocked by the number of people defending this rip-off contest and Mr. Loren Bouchard’s questionable talents. Amid is correct. Why should someone who can’t animate and really doesn’t know anything about the medium be qualified to judge other animators’ work?

  • Sean Williams

    Home Movies, South Park, Family Guy, Aqua Teen, etc.

    To all you animation fans, I quote Johnny Rotten “ever get the feeling you’ve been cheated?”

  • I gotta say, I enjoy the sheer stupidness of ” Lucy”.
    It’s very odd, and while it may not have the best animation around, it is still, dare I say it, ANIMATED.
    At least it’s not one of those ” fanboy-knows-a-producer-so-do my-live-action-too-hip-for-the-room-CRAPTACULARS” that seem to pop up a lot on Adult Swim.
    As for the contest, with the way content is done these days, it makes as much sense as anything else.
    Oh yeah, and ” Home Movies ” is terrific!

  • Ted

    A quick look shows that Bouchard was actually the producer of Dr. Katz and Home Movies (and Science Court, and presumably Lucy), which would seem to make him a better candidate than your characterization does on the surface.
    I wonder what the probability of the winner getting at least a one off 10 minute slot on Adult Swim would be. That type of exposure would have a positive value associated with it.

  • Corey

    So Amid are you here to protect the young creators whose work you DON’T approve of as well?

  • stephen king

    He’s created 2 shows , exactly two more than you’ve created Amid. Lets see you do any better, or actually , you know animate something. Anything. A lot easier to write books about other people’s work and criticize than actually making something Original yourself isn’t it?

  • home movies is a funny show, but i don’t really think that’s the point of this post. it’s funny but obviously not highly animated. dr. katz was funny too…but not really animated.

    BUT that said, this contest is silly. development deal? does that mean someone will help you make your idea a show? and as amid pointed out, someone who isn’t too into motion?

    why is having a show such a goal? i’m only working to make money to make my own shorts. it’s frustrating and every time i hear someone from cartoon network speak and talk about “what kids want” and why “outsourcing is a good idea” i end up storming out of the room.

    such a load of bunk. if anything these contests should teach people that the networks are running low on ideas and need to look to the internet to find good stuff.

  • PerswAsian

    I like to give negative reactions to things I haven’t seen because I’m an elitist snob, too!

    We should be BFFs forever…

  • Spencer

    Hey…I don’t see why there is a need for this type of negativity! Any opportunity for new animators to get their stuff out sounds good to me.

    Also, although Home Movies may not be the most brilliantly animated series out there, the people who created it made something entertaining, witty and original using Flash. As far as I’m concerned, making anything remotely watchable using Flash is an accomplishment, much less an entire series. Anyone who has seen the show would realize that like its similar predecessor Dr. Katz, it should be watched as more of an outlet for the comedians involved than for its animation which, despite some interesting experimentation, is limited. I guess my point is, it is important to keep an open mind.

  • 1% thoughtful rant
    99% going off on a tangent on how Bouchard is the worst person ever with little to no good reason.

    Much like the Pixar book “review” I cant help but wonder if these things are made controversial on purpose simply to get a reaction out of people and keep them salivating for the next one. WHO WILL THE BREW POOP ON NEXT? FIND OUT IN THE NEXT EPISODE!

    If it weren’t for the fact you guys had been entirely right about the “Cuppa Coffee” and scamtastic “Ilaugh” contests, this soapbox probably wouldnt have as many comments as it does, or will have eventually.

  • Jean

    It’s no use, Amid. At this point Just do the opposite. And request that EVERYONE participates in it, and let the winner come back and tell of his experience, whether it turns good or sour.

    You don’t owe any of these hopefuls your views, no matter how well intentioned you are, of what a scam it is. You just have to announce it, let it run its course and get information back . Especially for those who don’t win, should they decide to produce their idea on their own if only to see if they will get a “Cease and desist” letter from said contest organizers’ lawyers
    I wholeheartedly encourage everyone to participate and learn from doing it and give Amid’s outrage a rest. But please, if you participate, keep us posted of what happens after. Go on just do it.

  • Some Guy

    Oh, man…

    You people defending this contest are missing the point by turning it into a debate about Home Movies.

    1. You win the contest
    2. The Prize
    3. ??????
    5. Profit!

    What you lose: the rights to your characters, ideas, and soul

    What you gain: a snowball’s chance in hell of getting a show that’ll probably be cancelled within three episodes, won’t become popular, and you’ll never know when it’s on because of Adult Swim’s spotty, inconsistent, confusing “line-up”:

    12:13 Robot Chicken
    12:33 Venture Bros
    12:45:23 Home Movies
    1:06:45.34 Cowboy Bebop

    Repeat 5 times a night

    Wow, what a wonderful way to schedule programming, Mike and Sean! It’s so avant garde and different to never know when my show is starting! Man, I do NOT miss half hour weekly programming!

  • Juan Lasseter

    Don’t you love it when Cartoon Brew rants against established animators who have shows on the air? Isn’t it funny how they never mention Animation Magazine when that indie publication (which can easily be considered a non-profit organization) profiles animators and up and coming artists? Don’t you love the taste of sour grapes?

  • Mike Lucy


    1. Hey, look. Amid is mostly right about the merits of these “contests” I do think it is a really lame prize.
    It is one thing to offer a prize of airing your episode on a network or something and a totally different one to do this.

    2. Amid, you have zero integrity as a reviewer or “journalist.” You are so bigoted in such predictable ways, you attack people’s work at an immature and personal level so often that I cannot take anything you say seriously.

    Why don’t you gain some respect for your fellow artists. Childishly attacking others’ work is not productive.

  • stavner

    I tried to go to the contest’s website, but all I got was the contest’s Daliymotion group, which had exactly one cartoon on there.

    I’m not sure what “development deal” means, but it could mean that the guy who created “Assy McGee” can do whatever he wants with your babies.

  • Granted, Loren Bouchard isn’t qualified as an actual animator to judge a contest, which true purpose is meant to showcase animation– but what the hell, man?

    Search the credits of Dr. Katz, Home Movies, Science Court, and Lucy Daughter of the Devil, and you’ll find that Bouchard is not only producer, but one of the main writers. He is certainly qualified to evaluate the story and characters.

    Home Movies is a triumph when you consider limited budget and tight deadlines; there are some many charming and original moments, jokes, and entire brilliant episodes.

    Animation can be judged formally, but it in the end, it is only a means to the story’s end.

    Amid, you’re making this website appear foolish with such brazen disdain for something you haven’t even seen. I would have no problem with such childish slams if you had actually watched some of the programs.

  • I think Amid’s ‘rant’ is right on the money. What exactly does this “development deal” entail? The press releases all say that the winner will be mentored by Bouchard. What the fuck does even mean? How to get a shit show on the air? I can’t find anything stating what you actually win. Doesn’t seem worth losing the rights to your own creation.

    Why is that people seem to hate movies and shows with bad acting but are so quick to defend animation that just outright blows. Bad on purpose? I guess some people aspire to create shit. Why not just watch your floaters in the toilet.

  • “He’s created 2 shows , exactly two more than you’ve created Amid. Lets see you do any better, or actually , you know animate something. Anything. A lot easier to write books about other people’s work and criticize than actually making something Original yourself isn’t it?”

    Sooo, lemme get this straight — only people who’ve created shows are allowed to criticize them? I guess then that all movie viewers shouldn’t critique movies, book readers are not allowed to discuss books, etc.

    Such reasoning is, oh, what’s the word I’m looking for? Ah, yes: HOGWASH.

  • jose

    home movies is very original in the way the characters move and they dress, and the backgrounds and colours, even if it is easy to replicate visually, i think the whole thing with the music that connects the scenes and the very small gestures of the characters, it all results in a very coherent mood, it’s as though you’re taking the principles that people used to judge and appreciate Fragonard and his cartoon strips and using them on a cartoon strip like peanuts. I just can’t understand how you don’t value the subtle posing of the caracters and the editing as an effective and therefore good job. If this was architecture i think Home Movies would be Corbusier’s illustration for the viaduct-city in Argel. In one sentence “give Bouchard some credit”.

  • Ceaser

    Cartoon Brew seems to only pay respect to one type of animator (unless they’re from another country of course). That’s like opening up a music blog (furthering the conversation?) and writing just about Mozart and Beethoven and claiming that techno, rock and rap are low art.

  • Ethelbald

    People, they’re just cartoons. Don’t get me wrong, animation is a wonderful artistic medium, but absurd debates like this are rather pathetic.

  • Dave

    Fraggonard never created a show. Adult Swim hasn’t yet hired a genius to regurgitate Rococo.

  • Wow! A contest where you lose your rights just by entering! How much does it cost to enter? Free?! A bargain!

    The only person dumber than someone who would enter this contest is the person who let them put his name on it.

  • Uh, Ceaser… Techno, rock and rap *ARE* low art compared to Mozart and Beethoven.

  • The contest looks like a waste of anyones time. No need to take shots at the guy judging it though, he must realise what he is.

    There is no defense of this contest or others like it.

  • Ceaser

    Gee. If you really feel the Beatles are less than Beethoven weeeeeeeeelllll… it says a lot about why you feel this contest is waste of time… I guess it’s just different personality types.

  • Chuck J

    I’d gotten used to having to filter out the text of this blog to get to the occasional gem, like a clip from a rare cartoon I hadn’t seen. The blurbs always vacillate wildly between embarrassingly fawning, and ridiculously pretentious. It’s the stereotypical attitude of the indie music follower who’ll go on in rapturous tones about some obscure band, then go off on a tear about some other obscure band for “selling out.” What’s tiresome but predictable in music just gets silly when applied to animation.

    But this post just tears it. For starters, I’ve got a problem with anyone claiming to be an authority on animation, when he’s not familiar with the co-creator of three extremely critically praised (if not commercially successful) animated series — “Dr. Katz,” “Home Movies,” and “Lucy, Daughter of the Devil.”

    Second, it’s particularly odd to see Amid go off on “Home Movies” with a still used for evidence. Readers of this blog were subjected to months of excerpts from “Cartoon Modern,” which celebrated art that is to my estimation extremely crude if not downright ugly. But you got no complaint from me, because I realized that there’s merit into how the crude drawings were used on the whole.

    Anyone who’s actually made the effort to watch Bouchard’s work, instead of going off a still and bitching about it on the internet, would realize the true art of these series: getting truly spontaneous and naturalistic readings from extremely funny people, then combining them with fairly simple animation to give them an added layer of context.

    The worst thing about this completely misguided rant on how Bouchard represents everything that’s wrong with animation today? It’s that I’ve got no option but to reply just like indie music poseurs do: “You just don’t GET it!”

  • Weeeelllllll… It says a lot about why you think techno, rock and rap are high art when you can’t even spell Caesar correctly! Go get copies of Die Zauberflöte and the Diabelli Variations from the library and compare them to “Rocky Raccoon” and “Why Don’t We Do It In The Road” and let me know what you find out.

  • Ceaser

    Dude, I said its all personal opinion. I think Beatles and Mozart are on the same level of genius doing different things. My opinion is the very idea of high art is elitist snobbery. But this really isn’t the forum for this.

  • Darin

    Amid’s entitled to his opinion about Home Movies – and though I can’t hold a grudge against a beloved Brewmaster and creator of the excellent Cartoon Modern book, I gotta chime in with others and say that I really love that series.

    Just in case anyone involved in Home Movies reads this post and its comments (and feels stung by Amid’s dismissal of the show as I did), I want to make sure there’s some decent love going out from the fan base. The low-fi, slapdash animation was part of the humor and works brilliantly with the child-centered action.

    In fact, the way the characters come alive so well despite the very limited animation and scribble-like character design is one of the most impressive aspects of Home Movies.

  • Dave Levy has a very thoughtful piece on Bouchard’s “Dr. Katz” over at that is worth a look (check the Dec. 3rd post). I was a fan of that show as a kid and had never watched either of his newer shows till this string went up and i gotta say im a convert to “Home Movies”. Thanks for making this stuff Bouchard, its damn funny!

  • DanO

    BRAVO Amid.

  • judging from the comments, it is becoming more evident that there is a huge gap in thinking between people who like animation. It’s obvious that some people like comedian actors or “funny writing” over visually appealing eyecandy. What the fuck is animation? its fucking moving drawings, and cartoons more specifically are moving funny drawings that are appealing. What the hell is the point of stamping an ugly piece of shit ‘drawing’ on top of some “witty” voice track?? WHY?? why not just turn off the image and listen to the sound. Until people start caring about good animation and nice drawings and what animation should be, they will continue to support the poo and shit that comes out of these ‘creators” asses. All this contest does, is encourage some amateur hour dumbfuck who loves the amateurism of adult swim shows, and go out and try to copy and make his own turd that other people will have to polish.

    most people working in animation don’t like cartoons. they don’t even give a shit, they polish their turds then go home and jack off. but for all the bitter burnt out talented artists that do, its time to step up to the plate and make some fucking real cartoons on your own time. until then, cheap poorly made shows like these will be successful and true cartoon lovers will be outnumbered by idiots and fanboys.

  • Yes, Amid, how dare you insult that pinnacle of modern animation, Home Movies. The drawings are human and funny right up there with the best of Roger Ramjet and Rocket Robin Hood. I’ll see you in Hell!

  • Mark Kennedy

    It certainly seems that the vast majority of animation “contests” are just excuses to rip off young creators who don’t realize that giving away all of their rights in exchange for some “exposure” is a really bad deal. I’m sure what seems like negativity to some is just Amid’s frustration at seeing so many animation artists get the same kind of raw deal from unscrupulous producers that musicians and other artists have been getting for decades. And for those that disagree with Amid, they can take comfort in the fact that now that the contest has been mentioned on Cartoon Brew, more people know about it than ever would have otherwise. I, for one, am glad Amid takes the time to warn young people that there may be a dark side to these kind of contests and that they should read the fine print before getting involved with this kind of deal.

  • This contest makes me think of all the Pitch Party promotions Animation Magazine has done in the past. Have there ever been any shows, series, shorts, or other to come out of those? They seem to have them every year, with an entry fee of $300 or something like that. They always announce the winners, yet I never hear anything more about the projects.

    As far as Loren Bouchard, I didn’t know who he was until a Google search prompted by this post. I’m not a huge fan of the illustrated radio play type of animation that Mr Bouchard is involved with, but I can see why some people enjoy it. I have a feeling he’s just the latest person to get his name attached to yet another Animation Magazine promotion, with no ill will intended.

    Maybe someone from Animation Magazine can chime in with a few answers as to what happens in this contest that is different from their Pitch Parties of the past, and maybe something as to what happened to all the past winners of the Pitch Parties? Maybe a “where are they now” type of thing?

  • Some Guy

    Hey, can anyone here name the creators of Squidbillies, Morel Orel, Harvey Birdman and 12 Oz Mouse without looking it up on The Internetz? Yeah, I thought so.

    >The only person dumber than someone who would enter this contest is the person who let them put his name on it.

    Actually, I don’t think anyone entering this contest is dumb at all, which is why I’m glad Amid posted this and let people know WHY this contest is rip-off. I feel sorry for joe schmoe animator who think this would lead to

    >Uh, Ceaser… Techno, rock and rap *ARE* low art compared to Mozart and Beethoven.

    I think that applies even without comparing it to Classical, and I love all three genres.

    And what’s an Beatles? Is that like an Heroes? or an Crickets?

    Cartoonbrew’s comment messed up my previous comment but what I was trying to say before was:

    2. The Prize

  • Ceaser

    I can name all three without looking them up.

    Erik Richter and Matt Oulliween (sp?) created Birdman
    Mike Lazzo, Matt Mallierro and Dave Willis all played a part in creating Squibillies
    12 oz Mouse was made by Dave Willis when he was drunk.

    See. You thought wrong.

  • Masten

    Whether or not the contest is crap (which it could well be), Amid sure does seem to know a lot about a show he admits he’s never seen.

    I liked Home Movies precisely because it was so different from the other Adult Swim shows: It was coherent, warm, character based and intelligent. Not to mention incredibly well written.

    Shame on you for such transparent snobbery.

  • How about a comment from someone who’s entered a previously maligned contest… and won?

    Contests like these serve their purposes. The prize definitely doesn’t sound fantastic – but for people who enjoy home videos, it’s probably a decent one. If I had a throwaway film sitting on my hard drive gathering binary dust, where’s the harm in putting it to use? It’s a value judgment for the ARTISTS (you know, the people who make films). Obviously if the rights relinquished are far greater than the potential prizes, you wouldn’t enter anything that you really care about.

    I won 4th prize in the March Entertainment iLaugh festival 1-2 min category, and my girlfriend won 1st place. We are very happy about participating. We’ve kept all the rights except internet broadcast for 4 years. So it’s a great deal for us. Once again – that’s a contest that got badmouthed here by the brilliant Amid.

    I decided I wouldn’t enter my student film because I cared a lot about the characters and the properties involved. I instead entered a quick cheap “flashy” project I’d done in a week during school. I’ve since gone on to option my student film and got a little pocket money from something that was essentially worthless to me.

    The point being: there is value in this contest for SOMEONE. Not die hard Popeye enthusiasts, obviously. It could open up some doors for a person out there with a really good idea that’s just sitting in a closet.

  • victoria

    thats not fair “Home Movies” is so funny! But thanks for putting up the stuff about the contest. I would’ve never thought to check into the fine print like that.

  • stick to you guns amid!

  • DanO

    everyone should know the creator of Harvey Birdman! it is none other than Michael Ouweleen: the Senior Vice President of Development and Creative Direction for Cartoon Network.

    so his creating(also known as cannibalizing) of the Harvey Birdman cartoon is less noteworthy – conflict of interest aside – than the fact that he oversees all development for children’s cartoons on Cartoon Network.

    …and in the time he has served in this post the network has gotten drastically worse and worse to the point of it being a mere shell of its former self. we should all remember his name because its affected a network once committed to Cartoons like a cancer.

  • Home Movies reminds me of a time when I actually liked Adult Swim, before most of the cartoons on it were brainless trash. Most of the time it was far more intlligent and well written than Simpsons has been for years, and light years ahead of stuff like Family Guy which is in the gutter in comparison. This contest, however, most definitely stinks something rotten and I’m glad you warned us about it Amid.

  • Whilst I cant comment on how a contest may help a budding animator,
    after reading the above post I was ready and fueled up to come on here and stand up for Home Movies, as it is one of my favourite show. But I am glad to see the legion of fans above all championing the show- the visual style of the show is unique and perhaps an acquired taste- but the shows writing is such that it puts overrated shows like Family Guy to utter shame.

  • Some Guy

    Ceaser [sic] could name the creators of all those shows. I wouldn’t advertise that fact, Ceaser [sic] my man.

  • Andy

    Amid, what are you so bitter for? Be more like Jerry Beck.

  • Gummo

    As a big fan of Loren Bouchard’s projects, I’d like to defend the animation itself:

    As the commentaries on the Home Movies sets make clear, this is a classic TV cartoon in the sense of no time and no budget. The comments by Bouchard and Brendan Small make it very clear that they are VERY proud of what the animators were able to accomplish with so few resources; much of the commentary, esp. in seasons 3 and 4, are about pointing out shots, angles, lighting effects, visual gags, etc., that the animators were able to achieve within their limited means.

    And the “illustrated radio play” (ooh — that’s the biggest insult in animation, it seems) canard doesn’t apply either — the show would be a pale imitation of itself without Brendan’s fantasies and his movies, both of which rely on the witty work of the animators.

    Lucy is a much much odder project than Home Movies, and it certainly won’t be to everyone’s tastes. It happens to be to mine, as I am a big fan of anything starring H. Jon Benjamin and Bouchard’s sensibilities seem to strike a chord with me. The computer animation is as strange as the premise, but the character design is quite original, and that should count for something in the bland world of TV cartoons.

  • Anyone else noticing the ‘good cop, bad cop’ dynamic going on at this site? Jerry is always upbeat and positive and is very open-minded, while Amid is the pessimistic one who always has to force his highly biased thoughts down everyone’s throats!

  • Butters

    Stephen Worth muttered…
    “Uh, Ceaser… Techno, rock and rap *ARE* low art compared to Mozart and Beethoven.”

    Typical response from someone who’s old and bitter and clinging to the past. Why don’t we go back to travelling by horse and buggy, and while we’re at it let’s throw our tv’s away and instead, listen to shows on the radio. Those were the good old days eh? The world is changing, get used to it. I bet if Mozart and Beethoven were alive today they’d be more open minded than you are to new music. It’s called growth, and with growth comes some bad art. But without it we’d still be cavemen. Go dust the cobwebs out of your head.

  • I tried to dig around on the website and couldn’t even find a list of the official rules. What does winning entail? Who owns the rights to the product? What is the prize value? How will the short be “developed” and what resources are you exactly winning? The whole things seems very shifty.

  • animation veteran

    Amid hit paydirt with this post. Look at the comment numbers! It’s better to piss off your audience than bore them.

    I’ve had some passing business with one of Loren’s partners in Lucy Daughter of the Devil, (who shall remain nameless) and when I realized my ideas were being sucked away with no offers of a return, I quickly broke it off, literally walking out of the office. I found myself almost having to justify why I should have some rights to my own ideas.

    I’m now producing my second film based on what I almost gave away.

  • /\/\ikahl

    I don’t think Amid is so much talking about high-art vs. low-art. Its more that this contest is rather shifty – artists have to do lots of work- for little if not MORE work in return. Yeah this creator might not be that skilled, but its aside from the point. The point is this “contest” isn’t worth applying for. If you have some good stuff, put it in established festivals and get some publicity, maybe win some cash. Or even broadcast it on a website running a few ads.

    You don’t need to be a creator to understand that, only literate. This makes Amid a perfect judge for that.

  • Animation Magazine isn’t making a cent from this contest. Loren Bouchard a guy who admittedly didn’t finish high school and managed to build a successful a career in animation. He may not be Ward Kimball, but he’s an inspiration to a lot of people struggling to get noticed, so we jumped at the opportunity to sponsor a contest in which he will help discover new talent. Boo! Hiss! Right? Those who want to get him to look at their pilots will enter and those who aren’t interested will take a pass. What’s the big deal? Why the need to publicly attack this and call it an “embarrassing animation contest?â€? I just don’t get it.

    I suppose Amid thinks he’s doing animators a service by telling them not to enter contests, but I think grownups can decide for themselves. If you need some blogger to tell you what to do with your animation, you’re not cut out for this industry.

    As for our annual Pitch Party, it has opened doors for people, which is exactly what it’s intended to do. It’s not a contest to get a show on the air. We have given people who don’t live in Hollywood and have no industry ties an opportunity to pitch to network execs. Then it’s up to them to sell thier ideas. Since most pitches from working professionals get shot down, it’s unreasonable to expect a contest to yeild a new hit show every year.

    Nicholas Night won our first annual Pitch Party with his property The Hair-Raising Adventures of Aaron & Ned. The win resulted in a development deal with Spyglass Ent., and a video game option from SecondSun Ent. Though Aaron & Ned is still looking for a home, Melwood Pictures, an animation company founded by Max Howard and John McKenna, brought Night on board to help further develop his ideas and take them to the networks.

    “Winning the Pitch Party contest was a significant factor in moving my career forward,â€? Night told us in June of 2006. “I am currently creative director at Melwood Pictures, with several series properties in development, a feature that has been optioned, and a 26-episode “bridge” series (ages 4-7) deal on the table.â€?

    Other past contestants tell us that the exposure increased traffic to their web sites and helped them establish important industry contacts. Chris Leathers says winning the 2004 Pitch-Party with “My Annoying Little Brother” influenced his placement as lead 3D artist on the first season of the Nicktoons’ series “Kappa Mikey.” In addition, Dennis Salvatier ended up getting a 12-month option from Cybergraphix Animation for his Pitch Party entry, “The Bolt.”

    2005’s winner, Leo Antolini (“Edgar and Kipp”) also tells us he learned a lot about the art of pitching as a result of the contest. “I met with Peter Gal from Nickelodeon and gained some great experience, useful feedback and good contacts out of the whole thing.”

    I’ve spoken with these winners personally and they are across the board very grateful to us and the opprotunities we’ve made possible for them. I’ll be interested to hear what Cartoon Brew has done to help anybody get a foot in the door. I guess it’s easier to post negative comments about things other people are doing. Judging by all the comments here, that’s what gets attention.

  • Paul N

    “Go get copies of Die Zauberflöte and the Diabelli Variations from the library and compare them to “Rocky Raccoonâ€? and “Why Don’t We Do It In The Roadâ€? and let me know what you find out.”

    Ladies and gentlemen, the latest entry in the “Steve Worth Straw Man Portfolio”. Collect ’em all!

  • Sweet joosy jebus. Dance, motherfuckers dance. Amid, you are Gepetto. And I agree, all these ‘contests’ are is an excercise in cool-hunting by the imagination-bereft. There’s my two-step.

  • Ryan, I have a couple of questions. I can’t access the contest rules without giving Daily Motion my email address for their mailing list, so I can’t look up the answer myself.

    Assuming that a person enters the contest and his series ends up being picked up by a network. Do Loren Bouchard or Animation Magazine or Daily Motion stand to get any money then? How about if someone enters and doesn’t win. But through their own subsequent efforts, they get the show greenlighted. Do Loren Bouchard or Animation Magazine or Daily Motion own any interest in the show?

    Thanks in advance for the answers.

  • Well, I have to say I rather enjoy Home Movies, Dr. Katz, and even Science Court way back when. Although, it’s not at all the animation or drawings that I enjoy! A five year old could draw that stuff!

    Also, I doubt it’s an intentional look. They probably just can’t draw worth a sh*t, and can’t afford to hire any artists!

    Honestly, if you were to turn the picture off, and just listen to the dialogue, those shows would be every bit as entertaining! They might as well be radio shows!

    I agree with Amid about these contests though. A development deal isn’t much of a prize considering most shows never even make it to pilot, and even then, those that do are rarely picked up!

  • Are Beethoven and Mozart more important than the Beatles… well, yes. Yes they are. Even second string composers like Mendelssohn, Bruckner and Gershwin are more important than Snoop Dawgg, Enya and Talking Heads. But the subject here is animation… Is Snow White a better animated film than Home Movies? You betcha. Was Bob Clampett a more talented animator than Tom Snyder, the creator of Squigglevision. You better freakin’ believe it.

    You don’t have to be a luddite to realize that popular culture of the past is infinitely richer than what’s foisted upon us now. The best of today can’t hold a candle to what was considered “run of the mill” 70 years ago. That is self evident. Even your Mom knows Glenn Miller is better than the Sex Pistols!

    I may actually be someone who is “old and bitter and clinging to the past”. But that’s because I KNOW what’s been lost. At least I’m not young and stupid and ignorant of my own cultural history.

    Ignorance is curable. Youth ends up fading on its own. The problem in the world today is the stupidity.

  • Gummo: By “illustrated radio playâ€?, I meant that the writing, voices, and audio in general get more attention and are more important than the visuals. It wasn’t really meant as an insult (really).

    Ryan Ball: Thanks for the update on past winners. As for Cartoon Brew getting people going, a post by Jerry Beck helped me quite a bit. I had done a short film called “Opposites Jamboree”. I emailed a link to Jerry, and he did a quick post about it. I got an email from Fred Seibert the next day, wondering if we would like to pitch some ideas for shorts for Frederator/Nickelodeon “Oh Yeah Cartoons” (now “Random Cartoons”).

    Cartoon Brew helps the greater community see things they may not have seen before, thus exposing people to a much broader audience of eyeballs and helping them get their foot in the door, and in some cases, much more than that. The posts here can be heavy handed, but the good cop/bad cop style of posting are what make things interesting sometimes.

  • amid

    Ryan Ball wrote, “I’ll be interested to hear what Cartoon Brew has done to help anybody get a foot in the door.”

    Numerous people have received job offers and/or other opportunities by being mentioned on this blog. How do I know this? Because those artists have thanked me afterwards. And the offers they’ve received have been far more enticing than an opportunity to work on Kappa Mikey or meeting with a former district attorney who imagines himself to know something about the art form.

  • Butters

    Stephen Worth mumbled, “I may actually be someone who is “old and bitter and clinging to the pastâ€?. But that’s because I KNOW what’s been lost. At least I’m not young and stupid and ignorant of my own cultural history.”

    Oh right because I can’t access any Mozart or Steamboat Willy over the internet. How has it been lost? Did you ever think the reason you cling to that old animation or music is because that’s what you liked when you were younger. And now watching it or listening to it takes you back to a better time.

    Maybe animators don’t want to spend 80 hrs a week nowadays perfecting a walk cycle for people like you to judge. “Wow, Stephen Worth likes my squash and stretch. That definitely makes up for the past 30 years I’ve spent chained to this drawing table.”

    You said ignorance was curable, I suggest you take your own advice. This younger generation that you call “stupid” and “ignorant” is a lot smarter than you give them credit for.

  • Tay

    Maybe not everyone can agree on what is the best avenue for an uninitiated animator to get noticed in today’s industry… I suppose if any little bit helps and you are more concerned with getting contacts and finding a job (despite your artistic principles, even) then contests are a great way to go. If you have a concept and an established style or property that you want to stand by, and refuse to budge to accomodate what The Business might want, then you’re probably better off creating a web presense and building up word-of-blog to get some attention. It’s a matter of personal preference and how you’re willing to bend, just as individualized as artistic style (or a perceived lack thereof).

    Animation is a great medium because it allows freedoms you can’t get out of painting or live-action film or comics. So, maybe we will never be able to agree on one solid in-road for all animators to follow…but I think we can all agree that there is no call for ugly behavior. Shame on you.

  • Gummo

    Floyd Bishop: I wasn’t necessarily referring to just your remark. It seems like “illustated radio” is THE putdown of any animation someone doesn’t like. I’ve heard it said of everything from Rocky & Bullwinkle to Futurama and a host of others it certainly doesn’t apply to. Really, the only cartoons I would apply it to are the ultra-cheap cookie-cutter superhero cartoons of the 60s, 70s and 80s, which had no style of their own and barely moved.

  • Ceaser

    Its kind of funny, because there has been one true illustrated radio cartoon, and it was Fleischer’s Superman toons. They were more or less based on those shows, and they borrowed thier actors from it too. So there’s the one true example of illustrated radio. Rocky and Bullwinkle? The Simpsons? Those are just cartoons that run around less than Bugs Bunny.

  • Chuck R.

    I can’t add much to what Amid, Mark Kennedy, and Stephen Worth have already said, but they are exactly right. (And I don’t agree with Mr. Worth often :-) Amid’s doing the industry a huge favor with postings like this. If you don’t like his film critiques, put those aside for a minute or two:

    Entering contests is doing creative business on speculation and ought to be avoided. Of course, artists are free to do as they please with their creations, but trust me, signing anything that LEGALLY DIVORCES you from your creations forever with no promise of compensation, should not be taken lightly.

    The Graphic Artists Guild has a great reference book that many of you should read.

    There should probably be a version for animators too. Until that happens, we should thank Amid for at least airing these issues and encouraging artists to read the fine print.

  • Oh right because I can’t access any Mozart or Steamboat Willy over the internet. How has it been lost?

    It’s been lost because when it comes to popular culture, American society has undergone some sort of cultural Alzheimers. It seems that the media has effectively slammed the lid on cultural literacy. If it’s music older than the Beatles, it doesn’t exist. If it’s a movie created before Star Wars, it must be stuffy and old fashioned.

    When I was a kid, I knew Charlie Chaplin and W. C. Fields as well as I knew Soupy Sales and Paul Winchell. I knew who John Phillip Sousa was and we sang Woody Guthrie and Stephen Foster songs at school. You cite the Beatles as being equal to Mozart and Beethoven. I bet I know a heck of a lot more about the Beatles than you do about Mozart or Beethoven. I could give you a dozen reasons why Wolfgang Amadeus and Ludwig beat John and Paul. I bet you couldn’t even name Beethoven’s opera.

    Back in the 1920s, even the common man knew and appreciated classical music. In fact, the first huge hit record was the 12 inch Victor recording of Caruso and Galli Curci in the Sextette from Lucia di Lammermoor. It cost half a week’s wages and it sold millions and millions of copies until the stampers wore out and they had to record it again. That record didn’t go out of print for over half a century. Why do you think Bugs Bunny and Mickey Mouse cartoons have so much classical music in them? It’s because this was music that the average joe was familiar with.

    If you want to judge something, do it by its qualities, not by its age. Bad drawing is NOT a style. Lousy animation is NOT economy to be admired. If they can do five wiggly drawings to keep the lines moving, why not do five GOOD drawings and make the characters move? You’re being cheated and you don’t even know it. That’s what I call stupid.

    Don’t even get me started on the idiocy of calling the Fleischer Superman cartoons “illustrated radio”. You people are using terms when you don’t even know what they mean. Do you know who coined the term and what he was referring to when he used it? You think I’m a curmudgeon? Read the master of curmudgeonry and find out what illustrated radio means!

  • The term “radio with pictures” was first applied to TV in general. It was applied because the pictures did not matter. Everything you needed to understand and follow what was going on the TV set was in the sound. The pictures were just gravy…they’re not an integral part of the show.

    To judge something as “illustrated” radio, the same rule must apply: are the pictures essential to understanding what’s going on? Counting the amount of frames in an animated show is ridiculous because live action TV will always beat it, and that was and is still judged “radio with pictures.”

    Fleischer’s Superman cartoons are not “illustrated radio.” A look at the opening of The Mechanical Monsters will tell you why immediately.

    But I just had to respond to this ignorant statement:

    “Maybe animators don’t want to spend 80 hrs a week nowadays perfecting a walk cycle for people like you to judge,” by Butters. Are you suggesting they work less hours or the same amount of hours but with a different goal in mind? And if they’re not doing it for people like Stephen to judge, whose judgement are they after? Perhaps you mean they just don’t want to spend any time perfecting it prefering instead to play golf or drink?

    Hey, whatever they want to do is fine by me. I’m not judging them. But as a consumer, it’s my right to judge their work and I will judge their work. And today’s animation is just not up to par. Blame executives, budgets, or the animators themselves if you want. But the reality is that today’s animation in general sucks and that you cannot see that it IS bad and separate it from other elements of the show is what’s truly frightening.

    I bet very few of the professionals who work on these shows as artists, not executives or producers, but as artists will defend the quality of drawings on these shows.

  • Butters

    Fine Stephen, build a time machine and go back and do the jitterbug with Soupy Sales. I’d prefer to watch South Park. Maybe the animation is garbage but it’s a lot funnier than watching Charlie Chaplan slip on a banana peel.

    For Rajesh…
    It’s one thing to take pride in your work ie: spending time on a walk cycle. But when you’re lying on your deathbed the last thing you’re going to be saying to yourself is “damn, i wish i spent less time with my family and more on that walking caterpillar.” At the end of the day people like Mr.Worth and John K will never be happy. This is art, not everything is black and white, good or bad.

  • david

    sounds like butters isn’t an artist.. or doesn’t know how to draw. you are a product of your time. post modernist referential bullshit. if you want to make money off of poopoo and cheat people out of good entertainment good for you, but real artists know that it requires hard work and a passion for the artform, both of which you seem not willing to sacrifice. go ahead and enjoy smoking chronic and watching south park.

  • Chuck R.

    Butters: If South Park is funny, it’s because those writers and producers have invested a lot of time and creative energy into making it funny. Why shouldn’t artists/animators make similar investments with their craft?

    I am completely devoted to my kids —yes, family comes first. But don’t make this an either-or argument. People in creative fields should be utterly devoted to their craft. Great cultures are often remembered by the work of everyday artisans —from Greek amphoras to Hollywood films. Yes, I think I could die a bit happier knowing that something I slaved on would outlast me and my kids, and possible inspire another generation of artists. (We can all dream, I guess)

    Anyway, if you are going to be at work for half of your waking life, shouldn’t you be engaged in something you believe in?

  • Alex

    I know a lot about classical music, and even more so about Chaplin. I studied him profusely in my youth, and of course he was a genius. But only a crudmudgeon thinks one culture of one time period is better than another. It’s just an excuse to disparage current culture, for nothing is easier. Of course the different ‘worse’! Because a million people haven’t said it’s amazing yet!

    Culture has spoken btw. The Beatles shall live forever. There is no cultural Alzheimers. There is progress and change. Some love the new, some love the old. You love the old. I think both are great, but I think to disparage the new is just silly.

    Also, what I meant when I called Superman ‘Illustrated Radio’, was that it was literally the adaptation of Kellogs’ Superman Radio Program. I was trying to show that it was an idiotic turn of phrase used by people to disparage cartoons that they deem not animated enough (whatever that means…)

  • The reason I’ll never be satisfied is because I want to see the art of animation move forward and grow. Animation without animation created by animators who can’t animate does zilch for anything or anybody. People keep saying to be satisfied with half a loaf… then half of a half… then half of a half of a half… That’s exactly what’s digging animation’s grave. The grave has been getting deeper and deeper ever since Filmation and Hanna Barbera started the game of quality limbo back in the early sixties. Now that we’ve got Family Guy and South Park and Squigglefreakinvision, it’s gotten deep enough to bury a whole artform.

    But there are a few of us in animation who aren’t ready to let it die yet. We aren’t just in it for a paycheck. We know who Winsor McCay, Otto Messmer and Grim Natwick were and want to continue what they started. We’re not just looking to be passively amused for a half hour in front of our TV sets, we’re trying to say something with drawings that move.

    Butters, it’s pretty obvious that the only thing you’ve created is the impression from your backside on the couch. You can cheerfully kick the Little Tramp and Swing music into the grave you’ve dug for it, but your favorite shows are going to be going right into the dustbin along with them in a year or two. And when you hit fifty, there will be even *less* reason for kids to pay attention to what you say, because not only will you be old, all the old stuff you like will still be just as crappy as it was from the start.

    Meanwhile, those with taste that isn’t just in their mouth and brains between their ears will still be appreciating and talking about all those boring old farts like Chaplin, Beethoven and Hitchcock… and all those dusty old cartoons like Bugs Bunny and Popeye. And people with a passion for animation will still be learning from all that and trying to make “drawings that live” instead of “squiggles that blab”.

    Thank heavens not all kids are as stupid as you!

  • Yes, I think I could die a bit happier knowing that something I slaved on would outlast me and my kids, and possible inspire another generation of artists. (We can all dream, I guess)

    That isn’t a dream. It’s something to work on each and every day of your career.

  • amid

    Two interesting tangentially-related points of view that came as a result of this post:

    A Rant: I Hate Animation… by Pat Smith

    Crimes Against the Internets: Cartoon Brew

  • Gerard de Souza

    O.T.: Barring what I think about all these contests: Illustrated Radio” (as coined perjoratively by Chuck Jones) done right is an art form IMO.

  • Kelly Tindall

    Great posts, Steve. Keep ’em coming.

    I’m surprised how many people here are wearing their ignorance like a badge of honor.

  • Chris

    I wish people that tell Amid that if he doesn’t like the contest, he should just keep away would take a FAT dose of their own advice. For the rest of us that like healthy arguments and discussion, stick around.

    As an artist, I wholeheartedly agree with Amid. I don’t know many of the facts and maybe somebody knowledgeable like Steve could back me up on this. Studios used to give development deals, wherein they would PAY artists to develop their IDEAS into concrete CREATIONS. If you came in with an idea they were interested in, they would pay you money to draw it up, come up with stories, etc.

    Now studios just have pitch contests, making artists do all the development on spec. Studios can have you revise your work only to turn you down and ultimately waste your time. Pitching contests like these cheapen the artform on a whole because by saturating the market with these, why would they ever PAY an expert professional when they could get ideations from amateurs for free?

    Unfortunately, you usually get what you pay for.

  • Funny, those two articles are more candid and insightful than anything anything amid’s ever posted here.

  • Butters

    Actually David I’m a successful illustrator and have had my work published in numerous magazines. I decided not to pursue animation after I graduated because I refused to be a cog in the wheel at some studio that churns out garbage. I think you all have me confused with someone who doesn’t know the difference between good animation and bad animation.

    Now as far as cheating people out of quality work, I refuse to do that. At the same time I have to make my client happy and although they may want something that goes against all principles of design, if I don’t give them what they want I don’t eat. Now that may be fine for you if you live in your parents basement, but in the real world your artistic integrity means nothing if you can’t afford a pencil to draw with.

    I used to visit Drawn all the time but don’t anymore because I am not a fan of the work they feature. However, just because I don’t like it, it doesn’t mean that that awful stick figure someone drew doesn’t resonate and strike a chord with someone else. I mean look at the header at the top of the Cartoon Brew page. I think it’s awful, but if Amid and Jerry like it who am I to tell them it sucks.

    I was asked to do some layout tests for Spumco years ago but after hearing horror stories I politely declined. Although I agree with a lot of what John K says there are a lot of things I don’t agree with. Why would I want to spend my days getting yelled at for what he thinks is “good” art. Ripping Friends is a perfect example. You can’t spend years bitching about how bad other peoples work is and then produce a show like that. All your credibility goes down the toilet.

    “but real artists know that it requires hard work and a passion for the artform”

    What exactly are “real” artists? Are you one? I’d be willing to bet I’ve spent more hours at the drawing table than you. Are you going to waltz into a studio and take 2 weeks to do a walk cycle because you’re a “real” artist? Have fun, you’ll be fired after a week. I didn’t make the rules, that’s just how it is.

    “if you want to make money off of poopoo and cheat people out of good entertainment good for you”

    What’s “good” entertainment? Are you the type who goes around and tells people who like Family Guy that it sucks. Do you tell little kids that Santa Clause isn’t real too? If they like it, good for them. I know I don’t but whatever. Have fun with your crusade, no one cares and you look like an elitist douche.

    And yeah, I’ll go back to smoking my chronic, thanks.

    Chuck I hear what you’re saying and I agree to an extent. ;)

  • A question for Amid and Stephen Worth. What is keeping you guys from producing the cartoons you want to see?

  • amid

    Bob – So what’s keeping you from practicing dentistry? That question is as inane as the one you just posed to me. My profession is a writer and critic, not animation producer. Producing animation doesn’t strike my fancy at the moment, creating cool books and writing Cartoon Brew does interest me. So that’s what I do.

    Through my personal projects, there is the potential of spurring the creation of many great pieces of animation and encouraging a healthy, vibrant and dynamic animation art form. That possibility is far more exciting to me than the egotistical notion of creating one piece of animation. To each his own.

  • Jenny

    Home Movies is great and I’m saddened that you only judge cartoons based on their animation. Why not sit down sometime and actually watch it.

  • A Longtime Observer

    To Amid: As a historian, you should have thuroughly researched before making certain crude comments. Just as importantly, it is not professional to attack someone on a personal level, i.e. insulting their integrity. Now personally I wouldn’t jump into a contest with a person/company/host I don’t know; and considering the Cuppa contest and their official response which clarified their shadiness, it was good to bring this up. Even AnimationMagazine’s comment in the feedback seems a little lackluster (to me of course) in winners of their past contests.

    However, blaming the creator for bad animation without a proper background is…well, bad. I’m not going to expect you to know every nook and cranny in the world of TV animation because no one can. Perhaps it would have been better if some people who commented took an outside approach, took a breath, and informed you about the creator and the animation behind Home Movies rather than doing so brutally. Still though, you missed some basic history you should have gathered in the first place.

    To tell the truth, this animation has been around for at the very least ten years. The earliest I remember was when I was a kid watching Science Court, a 90s ‘toon on ABC Saturdays that used scientific concepts, applied in an actual trial by jury format. Very clever for an educated show. It was followed a year or so later by Squigglevision, which was the same show with a few new segments involving vocabulary and more humor. Then came Home Movies which used the same animation and was put on primetime local UPN stations alongside Dilbert. It didn’t last long, but was picked up years later by Adult Swim where it became a success, among a number of other formerly canceled programs. I can’t comment on Dr. Katz because I’ve never seen it outside of a few pictures and I was too young at the time to watch it.

    Furthermore the animation technique itself is called Squigglevision, which as people already mentioned, is cheaper to do in terms of budget and time. Anyone who knows more is free to clarify and correct me on any of the above.

    I like to think I wasn’t insulting your integrity Amid. I’m just looking at this from a professional perspective.

  • So Amid – so militant – I don’t practice densitry, but I don’t disparage denists in the world because I don’t like their capping techniques. I didn’t know you’ve decided your only possible contribution to better animation is to be a critic and historian, since you’ve done other work within the industry. As far as cool books go, I’d say Cartoon Modern is the coolest – much better than Art of Robots.

    If creating animation is egotistical, then I guess critiquing it without attempting it is even more so. True – to each his own. ;)

  • Jenny: I think your heart is in the right place, but I can’t believe I just read that.

  • breakout2317

    Hey Amid-
    Have you ever even seen Home Movies? The first season was in Squigglevision because it was cheap and still effective. As they switched to Flash in the second season, the animation got better and better. In the fourth season, it was pretty damn good, to be entirely honest. It’s especially hard to go from Squigglevision to Flash when you realize that you have to keep the characters looking pretty much the same, and the scenery and the backgrounds and everything else, so as to not eff with the first season of the show.
    Secondly, you can’t judge Lucy if you’ve never even seen it, which, from the sounds of this article, you haven’t. It doesn’t really matter that you’ve never heard of the show. Others clearly have.
    Thirdly, how can you even say that he’s not qualified to judge originality and style because “it’s an artist whose own works exhibits neither traits?” Clearly Home Movies and Lucy have both had their own original looks to them and definitely had some sort of style behind them.
    And finally, based on your last post, how can you judge his animation in terms of quality? As you said, you’re a writer and a critic. You’re not an artist. So all I took away from that article is that you’re a biased hater of his shows (really just show, you clearly didn’t ever see Lucy, nor did you even bother to mention Dr. Katz and Science Court), and therefore him, and that this is all based on your opinion of his art. So my opinion is that yours sucks.

  • “So what’s keeping you from practicing dentristry? That question is as inane as the one you just posed to me. My profession is a writer and critic, not animation producer”.

    Very good save. I guess I’ll choose being a writer and a critic too. After it’s so much easier to do that then learn some humility from actually having to produce an animated cartoon than deal with what comes with it.

  • HH

    I will say one thing about “Pitch Contests”, they are a bunch of crap. If you have an idea, cut out this middle man and go straight to a network. That way when actual execs give you feedback and rip your project apart, it’s worth something and you learn from it. Not to mention it will give you a better idea of what the industry is looking for. All these pitch contests do is get your hopes up and waste your time when you should just be out there actually pitching. It’s better to get out and meet the people who are actually the heads of development and buying shows for networks, not a silly contest where one guy who sold a show will tell you if it’s good or not. I’m sure he didn’t enter a contest to sell his show.

  • To Bob Harper: That’s a big question…

    I’ve worked hard for the past twenty years to make cartoons that I would like to watch myself. Some turned out great, others got messed up along the way. Those things happen. But as a whole, I’m very proud of what I’ve produced. I’ve accomplished everything I set out to do when I first got out of college. In my entire career, I’ve never had to take a job just for the money. I always believed in the creativity of the people I worked with. I’m pretty fortunate. There aren’t a lot of people who can say that.

    When I got to the period at the end of a sentence in my career this last time, I took a hard look at the animation business and realized that there was a whole lot of business, and not much animation. I read people on the internet blabbing about how you can’t depend on artistic vision, because it won’t pay the bills, and how you have to do whatever the man tells you to. Hogwash. I’ve been around the block enough times to know that’s just another excuse for mediocrity.

    So I decided that I had the perfect opportunity to take a crack at giving something back to the artform. Now, instead of fighting budgets and executive incompetence to get a cartoon made, I’m fighting to build a resource for artists that will help them become better artists. If I step on toes that need to be stepped on, so be it. Ask any of the kid animators who come into the ASIFA-Hollywood Animation Archive what I ask in return for the resource I’m providing to them. They’ll tell you what I say– “Make cartoons that I’d like to watch.” You’re going to see that paying off in a few years.

    No one needs to enter a contest to get a professional to look over their pitch. I’m a producer who’s had much more experience in animation than Bouchard has. Anyone wanting advice can come into the archive anytime and get it from me for free with no strings attached. There are a lot of other pros who frequent the Archive who share their experience with kids every single day as well. That’s what we’re here for.

    You don’t get into the animation business by winning a contest. You get into it by being a professional with integrity, skill and vision. Every single day, I see kids come in the door who have what it takes to make great cartoons. They’re going to push aside the cobwebs and make the cartoons I want to watch.

    Nothing is keeping me from producing the cartoons I want to see.

  • And finally, based on your last post, how can you judge his animation in terms of quality? As you said, you’re a writer and a critic. You’re not an artist.

    How can you judge Amid’s criticism if you aren’t a professional critic?

    This is absurd. You don’t have to be an artist to see that there is absolutely no style to these shows. And there’s no animation either. The whole concept of “squigglevision” is to badly assist every drawing into five drawings and expose them randomly so the audience won’t notice it’s an animatic, not an animated cartoon. It’s a cheat, not a style.

    The creator of Science Court said in an interview that he doesn’t hire animators to create his shows because they waste a week worrying about putting personality into how a character walks across the room. He prefers to work with people who just draw a drawing and leave it at that. I think it’s pretty obvious that someone who thinks so little about the medium isn’t qualified to create animation. The animation business has too many of those types already. We should give animators a crack at making animation again.

  • Jenny

    Floyd, I didn’t mean to sound ignorant as I did, but would it kill him to actually watch shows such as Home Movies and look beyond the animation? There’s some quality stuff, seriously

  • Bob Harper


    Thanks for the sincere reply to a sincere question. Nobody would dare discount what you’ve done with the archive, that’s why I’ve given to it in the past and will again in the future.

    I am not endorsing this contest or any that would cause artists to sign away their rights with the promise of nothing. The point I would like to make is that this contest would be just as bad even if it was to have a chance at getting to work with someone you respected.

    I’m not a fan of Home Movies, nor does it bother me that it exists. And for the record I like Mozart, The Beatles and the Sex Pistols. Then again I like Looney Tunes, Terrytoons, Rocky and Bullwinkle and Southpark.

    The same edict that you propose to us animators, to make the cartoons that you want to see, is the same I propose to you. All of those young animators that you speak of could do something great under your supervision, while allowing you to maintain the archive.

    We all have gigs we have to do to get by, but nothing is stopping anyone from making the cartoons they would like to see, but themselves.

  • A Longtime Observer

    To Mr. Worth: Wow. Knowing that about the work behind Science Court is a reality check. There goes a piece from my naive childhood.

  • Mr. Semaj

    Home Movies is one of those shows, along with Aqua Teen Hunger Force, where the “appeal” is simply puzzling. At least with shows like Family Guy, their stiff drawings were backed up by funny stories, although that’s become less apparent recently.

    This contest would be much more plausible if it was hosted by a more certified animator, even folks like Arlene Klasky and Gabor Csupo. All this crap is doing is discouraging aspiring animators from making anything meaningful, filtering the substance out of their work, until all we get on TV anymore are colored stick figures.


  • Joe M

    I’m afraid that my attitude towards Cartoon Brew has gone the way of John K’s blog. I simply cannot deal with sifting through Amid’s baseless, pointless bashing for the sake of finding nuggets of useful information.

    Honestly, the animation community sincerely needs a reality check. Aesthetics are viewed as a black and white issue, and really, that’s silly and stupid.

    Amid, this is your blog, you can say whatever the hell you want to say. Even pointless insults on things you jump to conclusions about. But that’s it for me, I just can’t come back here anymore. I suggest that anyone else who feels similarly does the same. It’s simply not worth it.

  • Anne D. Bernstein

    I love to see beautiful animation married to hysterically funny writing. But I notice that nothing pisses off hardcore animation fans more than a successful show with limited (uh…crappy?) animation. Even if the animation is funny and appropriate to cheap-ass budgets, like those of ADULT SWIM. I (mostly) agree with Amid’s original post regarding contests: it is important that those who enter realize what they are giving away. (BTW, what are the details of this contest? I tried to register to find out but the site kept telling me to enable cookies, which are enabled, so I gave up. Are they taking ownership of the idea and characters? Or is it just a limited time development deal?) For some animators starting out, these contest are not a bad way to get exposure. I recall that Pete Williams won a contest back at MTV and he ended up with a season of UNDERGRADS to show for it. I don’t think he regrets it–although I’m sure he was bummed that the series didn’t get picked up for second season. Anyway, I still believe there is a place for awkward limited animation on tv if it “works”: Beavis, Dr. Katz, South Park. etc. The problem is that most corps that fund series obviously think in terms of keeping budgets as low as possible. So maybe a successful “badly animated” show just encourages them? Still, there are shows like Spongebob that are strong on both fronts. I assume Nick budgets are better than Adult Swim and Comedy Central, though…

  • Jenny: I could tell what you meant, but it was a funny thing to read… like judging a pie contest on the color of the pie tin rather than the taste of the pie.

    I think many people are up in arms about the contest because of the implications of what the sponsors are looking for. The shows of Loren Buchard have somewhat limited animation in them. It would seem that this contest is looking for more of the same.

    Not to derail the discussion further, but I think many people feel that these shows with limited animation and low budgets serve as a new goal for the networks.

    “Can we get a pilot for little or no money?”

    “What’s the least amount of animation we can produce and still get people to watch the show?”

    “Show XYZ has a production budget of X dollars. Let’s try to come in under that.”

    If this is the line of thinking, why would they ever greenlight something with full animation? I understand that the networks are running a business. I understand that to make money on a show, you need to spend as little of it as possible during production and get as many people watching as possible to get advertisers to buy airtime. For people who pitch shows and create shows (and care about the animation side of things), it’s frustrating to see show after show get greenlit when there isn’t much animation in it at all.

    If anyone has seen Jerry’s “Worst Cartoons Ever” show, it’s pretty funny for just how little animation there is in an animated show. What isn’t funny for so many who enjoy animation is that there are more and more animated shows with little or no animation in them. I would bet that there is more animation in “Spunky and Tadpole” than in “Tom Goes To The Mayor”. Now which one has better writing? That’s the one people will watch. On a creator level, it’s great to get your show on tv, but looking at it as someone who enjoys animation, it sucks that a show like that is even on the air. I think this is where a lot of these posts come from.

    I think that television animation is in a huge slump right now. With so many people using the web, the internet is the best way for creators to get their work seen. You don’t need a network, an executive friend, or a contest to get your work seen.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if we start to see some TV networks change formats or disappear completely in the next five years.

  • Budgets have nothing to do with it. You could give one of these shows with stickfigures and wiggles a bazillion dollars and they would still look like a class of kindergarden kids made it. The shows look bad because the people creating them can’t draw their way out of a paper bag. They aren’t animators and they have no affinity for the medium.

    If you don’t have a lot of money, you carefully plan your action so you can make do with fewer *good* drawings, not just as many bad ones.

  • Amid, I can’t believe you just said this:
    “That possibility is far more exciting to me than the egotistical notion of creating one piece of animation.”

    What a big slap in the face to every animator here! You are saying that you are better than us because us animators waste our time stroking our egos attempting to animate something.

    Man, the only reason I stick around is because Jerry posts more than you do, but the day that balance switches, I’m outa here because your smallmindedness is not worthy of a wide audience.

  • I love it when people say they never read Amid’s posts and then respond to something he said in the comments to one of his posts two days later more than 100 comments in! If this was poker, I’d be upping the ante on you right now, Ryan. I think you’re bluffin’!

    Amid is one of the most direct and honest critics on animation you’re ever going to find. His comments are consistently interesting and thought provoking. Give ’em hell, Amid!

  • animation veteran

    I wish people wouldn’t start the “That show sucks” or “That studio is awesome” stuff. The topic is whether entering contests is a reasonable method of breaking into the business. Ryan Ball’s comments concerning winners is interesting. On the surface it sounds great, but it wouldn’t be intelligent for a winner to bash the contest now would it? And what about the “losers” Did they give up rights by entering? If not, great. If they did, shame on everyone.

    And about “real artists” my definition: someone who WORKS at SELF expression. During my day job, I’m not expressing myself, and I don’t pretend I do. I do what the Man wants. I suspect a lot of indignant posts come from studio hacks who just can’t be honest with themselves. I switch gears at home, and I work just as hard. Same skills, different goals. If it becomes successful, then I’ll be the man, and anyone working for me will have to deal with it. I’ll be the guy out there being judged by Amid and whoever. (though I hope it’s Jerry)

  • Chuck R.

    I kind of agree with Ryan. That “egotistical” sentence calls for an explanation. Sure, artists have egos — sometimes it’s a necessary survival mechanism. But how are critics and writers any different?

    That said, Amid contributes a helluva lot to this site. Sometimes you need a strong opinion to jump-start discussions, and Amid goes out on a limb where Jerry does not. Yes, things take on an elitist tone once in awhile, but everyone’s allowed their two-cents.

    To the early commentor who thinks this post is not newsworthy: Postings about creator’s rights are life-and-death matters compared to this:

  • Jayster

    “Home Movies, South Park, Family Guy, Aqua Teen, etc.

    To all you animation fans, I quote Johnny Rotten “ever get the feeling you’ve been cheated?â€?”

    Holy poop I’m gonna look like a big dork, but…

    Johnny Rotten wasn’t saying that the audience was being cheated as in this analogy (or whatever you call it) is implying. He was talking about the band itself being cheated. Rotten didn’t care about the audience.

    So in this example it might be better to apply that quote for John K. or Otto Messemer.

    Hey does anyone know why Sponge Bob is lame now or why Tom Kenny can’t do the same voice?

    I’m puzzled.

    Amid, I’m thinking all these clowns should start their own blogs and post all their declarations of love for any shows they want instead of heaping on crap after crap in these comments. You should do a wicked post against Anime and The Boondocks and all that junk. Or the horrors of Butch Hartman.

  • For a second, I thought I looked up and read:
    Cartoon Brew: A New Low for Animation Conversation

    But yeah, that crimes of the internet post said exactly what I feel. I don’t mind personal opinions, even when they’re super snooty and uninformed. I just expect them more when I visit “Amid’s Blog of Everything Amid Likes and Doesn’t.” When you champion your blog as some sort of animation destination, that’s kind of what people expect when they walk in. You know, a CELEBRATION of animation. Not a dump fest.

    And that’s really funny how posters will call for less crap, then beg for more toilet posts. What do you expect?

  • Zee

    I’ve entered a few contests myself;Nicktoons, various Animation Festivals, and just recently signed a development deal with a studio. This contest is probably not going to make anyone an overnight millionaire. But it is a good first step for an animator that wants to have his or hers own show. You need to start building relationships with broadcasters, networks, producers, and people that have had successfully made their ideas into show that made it to air. This contest could do just that. Even if the winning prize doesn’t lead to your own show, it will be a good start in the very long journey of pitching your own show. And trust me, it is a very long journey. You need to meet established producers, writers, and broadcasters. And if this contest and this particular idea does not turn into a show, maybe your next idea will, and you will have some better connections as a result of a contest like this.
    The amount of bitterness in this industry, even though it may be justified, is out of control. Instead of bitching about a contest like this, enter it, try it, you need to start taking those baby steps to become a success. Sure you could just make your own pilot or short and stick it on you-tube. But that won’t help you network and build relationships with the decision makers. You may get lucky, someone might see and offer you a deal, but it far more of a long shot than entering this contest.

  • Don Que Jote

    I am completely with you Amid. This guy is an opportunist ass, and a total hack, and a tool of the network, rolled into one!

    I would have loved to sat in on the sleazy business meeting where they dreamed up this whole concept.

    If the majority of animators out there would wise up and listen to a constructive piece of criticism about the shady business practices Amid often mentions, maybe the independent creator as a whole would seek to gain more ground in this cut throat business.

    Good on you Amid!

  • joecab

    I can’t speak of the contest which is a seprate issue, but, man, Amid, I can’t believe you’ve never heard of Loren. I love both Home Movies and Lucy…

    No, the animation isn’t the most polished but then it’s not meant to be. it’s the dialog and ad libbing that sell both series.

  • Manimator

    Amid – I completely agree with you. In order to have a valid contest like this, bring on a director and/or producer with some real experience with a show that hasn’t received controversial critical response. Animation contests like this one are great and exciting when you’re a recent graduate with high hopes to meet the right people, but when you get a real job you realize these contests are just out to find new ideas because the people running them are OUT of ideas. And why are they out of ideas and throw a contest? So that they can lure good ideas from new graduates for free.

    Of course Home Movies’ animation is not meant to be good, but why not? Would it really have made the show that much worse if it was actually designed and animated great? But it’s Loren’s lack of design and animation “style” that made the show mildly funny only for as long as it was on (4 seasons, and that’s lucky).

    The negative posts always get the most response! Bring more on! Get all the kiddie animators mad!

  • Arlyn

    I tried to watch the home movies but the intentinally bad animation was pissing me off, and I didnt find it witty or comical whatsoever. Im no snob or a rich person and I dont like this guy’s wack animation on purpose crap. There are some dam good animators out ther and this guy is killin it for all of us artist’s with talent and good ideas that want to bring animation forward while the network guy blackballs U for ur idea’s and turns em into crap. Thank U cartoon brew for promoting Talent and exsposing the trash that leaks thru in the animation biz. And shame on all of U who continue to support these crap shows.

  • Loren Bouchard, whatever else he’s done, is credited as producer for ONE episode of Dr Katz. Just setting the self-inflated record straight.

  • JimsToons

    Hi everybody. Just stumbled on this forum from the link Loren posted on his blog revealing the winner of the competition. I actually entered in this (apparently horrible but I still kinda don’t understand why) competition with my second official cartoon. I didn’t win, however, felt I’d share it with you guys anyway. First off, I gotta say I think shows like Aquateen, Sea Lab, and Home Movies are comic genius so take that into consideration before viewing. Okay, I’m sure you’ll all hate it so enjoy!

  • pappy d

    Why do I have this vision of pimps hanging around the Hollywood Greyhound Station?

  • sankaWorks

    *sigh* I understand the tinted glasses you’re looking at this issue through; and on those merits your argument stands more or less, but you approach the issue one dimensionally. Home Movies is a prime example of where your assessment falls short.
    Home Movies is dialogue driven. The dialogue carries the animation; and what a person that speaks as you do is usually looking for is the opposite. If I guess correctly, you have spent money out the wazoo on art school; have paid your dues and are pretty good at what you do, and here are these ‘losers’ with a copy of flash and some good timing making cartoons. ‘What the hell?’, right? Well, honestly, I’m glad for it because it’s elitist little squirrels like you that have dictated for far too long what’s ‘good’ and what’s ‘not’. The people have spoken, well more the ratings, and you lose, sir.

  • Ryan

    Arlyn is a loser and doesen’t get comedy Home movies is about the relashonships of all the people in the show the stuff they talk about and the bad animashion was only in the first season but it made u focas on the people and not the backgrounds. I think Home Movies is one of the best shows I have ever seen to date. Dr Katz and Sience Court got me hooked on that type of comedy but Home Movies just blew them both out of the water. Lucy Daughter of the devil is also 1 of the funniest shows I’v ever seen I’v got so many of my friends hooked on Loren Bouchards work mostly home movies and if Loren ever reads this I want him to no that there is alot of us who would kill to see a Home Movies Movie or for you to make one of Brendons movies like the wizards backer of even Starboy and the captin of outer space . Well Loren your a mastermind of comedy and I can’t wait for that Home Movies Movie ;)